Here here and spot on, E. So right on about Farnsworth and a brawl. I've been his biggest critic but I felt for the guy, and Girardi too watching their clips tonight.

"Real men also cry," the Big Lebowski.

I really have to hand it to Farnsworth, the bullpen has been a real bright spot this year, and he's been a legit part of it.

it was a kinder, gentler Farnsworth that was traded today. I have to hope it was the organization (and Girardi's recent faith in him) that made him near-cry today.
That said, I also am not a big fan of Pudge.
There are all the stories about calling only fastballs with men on base, being unprepared for his pitchers, steroids, etc... but bottom line, he just never did it for me.
However, there's no denying he can catch, hit, and help lead a team to the promised land. All that for pr0FF3ss0r_F4rnsw0rth? I'll take it.

I'm sure your platelets are awesome, E-Span.

I wouldn't worry too much about I-Rod's I-brows, though -- this is likely to be a Fall 2008 Limited Engagement, wouldn't you think?

I never got the Farnsworth hate thing like the avg. Yankee fan. I think the trade is a very good one, but I am just a little sad to see him go.

no love for Pudge?? top-5 catcher all time isn't he?? hip-hip-hooray for Cashman on this one..(I`ll skip the video footage of big Farns' reaction..am scared of men with guns who cry...)

In college, my fraternity often coordinated with the local Red Cross chapter to have blood drives on campus. I distinctly remember their director telling us, at one point, that they always say the need for blood is crucial, even if its a lie, because when they don't, almost no one donates.

That said, I have no doubt that your platelets are special, Emma.

RIYank - continuing our discussion from the last thread:

Sox won't get draft picks unless they offer Manny arbitration. I bet they won't, because he's crazy enough to take it, just to piss them off.

And, getting that huge distraction out of their clubhouse might be the key to a playoff run, far more than his bat - shades of Nomar in '04.

Angels have the bases loaded, one out in the 8th, Vlad the Impaler up.

Manny to Florida is still on the hot plate?? Hanley and Manny Ramirez poster in the makings..

Justin Masterson gets them out of the jam with a GIDP.

Shaun, I think there's very low risk in offering Manny arbitration. Boras won't let him accept.

I was surprised that Farnsworth was all choked up. I felt for him, but I won't miss his 3.65 ERA.

Gotta to agree about Farnsworth and the wasted opportunity for the Yankees to actually win a brawl, Emma.

Pudge, another steroid user. Oh well, what can do, but hope that he plays well.

Has a Red Sox star ever ended his career without feeling alienated by the team? Think about it...Ted Williams (more the fans than the ownership), Carlton Fisk, Wade Boggs, Mo Vaughn, Roger Clemens, Nomar, Pedro and now Manny. Even Schilling has sparred abit with ownership.

When you consider that list above, and perhaps others I've missed, it really makes you think about Manny's statement:

"The Red Sox don't deserve a player like me. During my years here I've seen how they have mistreated other great players when they didn't want them to try to turn the fans against them."

I'd be relieved if the Red Sox trade Manny, but I don't want them to get anything of value back and I can't see that happening.

11 Yaz?

6 King Pecan, you are the only one who is going to worry about excising the Manny distraction, "keying a playoff run" in Boston.

There is no way the Red Sox even make the playoffs without Manny. Jason Bay is a streak hitter, and he has been on a good streak this year for awhile. A Manny-less Sox team, with this BP construction, is dead in the water.

11 wow..never thought of that..of course most of those precede the current ownership..here's hoping we get another rip-job on Manny by Petey Gammons

14 Seems like an exaggeration. Manny - Jason Bay = 10 runs or so, over the course of 60 games.
Actually, it could be more. I could see Bay struggling mightily in the AL, at least for a couple of months.

13 I think Yaz went out on good terms, although it did seems as if the organization and its fans might have wanted him out sooner before realizing what he a treasure he was.

15 Speaking of Gammons, he has long been a mouthpiece for Sox ownership, but his recent rip job on Manny was pretty transparent.

Manny is the last of a breed; he's like one of the great soul men--Al Green, Marvin Gaye?--a great eccentric--he'd give the shoes off his feet to a lady in the audience, that kinda thing.....

I see his flaws, but if my team employed him, I'd be on his side....

The Commissioner's office has been informed of a deal involving Pirates, Sox, Marlins.

This means there's cash involved. Sox pay Manny's salary?

Will Carroll has been more wrong than right about trade rumors, but he does have the following:

The Commissioner's Office has been informed of a deal involving the Pirates, Red Sox, and Marlins. The Commissioner has to sign off on any deal involving cash considerations of more than a million dollars and there was clearly going to be cash involved in any deal. There's also some formality about Manny Ramirez waiving his 10-5 rights and no trade clause and I'll admit not understanding the technicalities.

nice post emma - not only did we never get the farnsworth brawl - he didn't get to do your taxes or save your dog either :}

i do really feel bad for kyle -especially since he got so upset
though i am happy for us and for him that he did string together some nice performances this year

18 agreed; I feel about Gammons almost the way you'd feel about a favorite player who went through a long, sad, decline...

And Justin Masterson is getting LIT UP in the top of the 9th.

11 i do happen to think there is some merit to what manny is saying.

Players I'd want on my team during a brawl:

Nolan Ryan
Ray Knight
Darryl Strawberry

How funny would it be if a Manny deal is made, but then squashed because ManRam failed his physical after an MRI on his knees.

21 He doesn't have a no-trade clause. It's the 10-5 rights in question. He gets a veto.

Sox part with three minor leaguers, I'm hearing.

Is the Carroll report online somewhere?

Manny is still in LF, so I wonder what that says about the completion of a deal.

27 i'll certainly be laughing when scott boras gets the union to file a grievance against the red sox

28 It's on BP. I've read that the Sox are giving up Lowrie, but that would make no sense for Boston.

16 Asking Bay to come in and immediately take over the 3rd spot (or similar) in the lineup and produce to Manny standards is a lot to expect. Look at Nady's first few ABs for the Yankees.

Now Nady is going to be in the 7-8th lineup spot and not be counted on to be The guy.

Throwing Bay into Fenway and the pennant race, he is going to be pressing. Are the fans going to give him some slack in his first 50ABs? I doubt it.

I really think this kills the Sox's chances. Let's also see the residual effect it is going to have on Ortiz. will he ever reach his Papi-ness standards again without Manny to protect him?

31 Lourie: I agree, makes no sense, unless they get a replacement. They can't finish the season with Alex Cora at SS.

26 Don Baylor, Ted Kluzewski (sp?) and Eckstein for some Van Gundy leg-pulling

25 you think there may be some other-side-of-the-story pieces come out after he gets traded? would love to hear more inside scoop from Manny..

From ESPN.com:

Posted by Peter Gammons

The Manny Ramirez trade conversations are expected to continue into Thursday, according to a source. Because it's a very complicated deal, involving a player who has the right to veto the trade and other parts, it is still unlikely to happen. But the negotiations will go on.

It seems like all of this insider info boils down to they may trade him, or they may not.

Ken Rosenthal reporting about the same as Carroll.

33 when is lugo back?

petey thinks the yanks won't offer pudge arbitration.
surely some team would give at least a 2 yr deal.

I'm with Shaun on this.

You have to be crazy to not see this deal as a HUGE WIN for the Sox. They lose Manny's bat, but gain a big time bat in Jason Bay. Its like trading A-Rod last season and replacing him with David Wright. Yeah, your offense is going to hurt a bit, but is that really hurting? You are getting a younger, cheaper player and getting rid of a player who would be a FA next season anyway and perhaps is a distraction to the team.

The Sox have done fine in the past when Manny pulls his act, and they'll do just fine with Bay in the lineup. They get younger at a key position, and now can spin that money into, say, CC Sabathia.

Sure, on the surface its less scary to see Manny Ramirez hit behind David Ortiz in Yankee Stadium and probably helps Moose, but looking beyond that, the Sox are major winners here...

Meh trade for me. Big names, and some notable needs were met, leading to some sizzle in the discussion here and in the stories on the wires. More fodder for the "Cashman=genius" and "rich get richer" memes running amok on the message boards right now.

Right now though, it looks like we made an area of strength (bullpen) a little weaker, and made a weak area (catcher, bottom of the order) a little less weak. I just can't get too excited about Pudge.

Not saying it was a bad deal or anything...just seems more like mild reinforcements at the price of a bullpen chip we could afford to lose. If Nady and Pudge can continue to hit and make our offense that much better, then I'll be more excited. I'll also hope that Marte is the real deal, and that Veras and Robertson don't turn into pumpkins before October.

Let me also say that despite seeing this trade as a win for the Sox, they aren't any BETTER this year or next. They are about as able to replace Manny's production as you could expect, and if they turn that $ into CC they will be scary good, but its not like they got Bay AND kept Manny, so I'm not crestfallen either

Yanks now 1 behind Boston, tied in the loss column. 9-2.

Goodbye Kyle Lynn
Though I never knew you at all
You had the fastball to throw yourself
While those around you scored.

They crawled out of the woodwork
And they bashed in your brain
They sat on your meatballs
How I learned to hate your name

And it seems to me, you spent your time
Like a homer in the wind
Never knowing what say
When The runs came in
And I would liked to have seen you
On the DFA List
Your candle burned out long before
Your homers ever did

38 Bay will be 30, but Wright will be 26, so the comparison isn't perfect, but I get your point. I don't think anyone is suggesting Bay isn't a good player, but Manny is still a better hitter in a better league. And, the same might be true next season as well.

Obviously, the prospects come into play as well, but I think losing Manny has a bigger impact than gaining Bay. We know what Manny can do, but have never seen what Bay is capable of on a stage larger than Pittsburgh.

39 Oh, and sorry, I'm referring to our trade -- Farns for Pudge. :-) As far as the hot topic of the Sox and Manny and Bay, I'm with those who think Bay is a good pickup for the Sox, but he's unlikely to make them that much better this year.

With that said, getting rid of Nomar (who was every bit the distraction Manny was before he got traded) and getting Cabrera and Stinky turned out to be very significant pickups, and huge for the mood of the clubhouse. So maybe the Sox can catch lightning in a bottle twice by dumping Manny and his drama...but I doubt it.

39 I think you are underestimating how much better a hitter Irod is than Molina. Also, Farns was pitching well, but not better than Edwar, Veras, Marte (including Pitt) and even Giese.

43 Right, obviously getting Wright would be better in that situation, but I was going mainly with the first thing that popped into my mind and the approximate drop in OPS+. But like I said, the trade doesn't make the Sox any BETTER for the next two years, just younger and cheaper. Bay could in theory flop, but he has generally shown himself to be a very very good hitter.

I am sure Moose is quite pleased with this trade if it happens

42 beautiful..now one for LaTroy Hawkins to the tune of "Daniel"?

34 well, i do think it is a pattern with the sox, particularly recently - which is something i feel i can speak to a bit better, that when they turn on a player or decide they don't want to bring them back they run a slander campaign against them.
they certainly did it with nomar, lowe, pedro, and schilling. they have quite a few toadys in the media that go along with it.
all kind of stories have been coming out about manny this week on the radio - for example, that he threatened paplebon with an aluminum bat and it goes on and on.
but i would definitely love to get some scoop from manny - though it will be hard for it to get played as anything other than the wonderful sox frachise and that crazy, erratic, loon manny

39 Weird.

Molina's OPS+: 58.
Pudge's: 101.

How is that not a huge upgrade?

38 Well, if the question is whether the Sox are better or worse this year, on paper, the answer is they are worse with Bay than with ManRam.
If the question is whether they're better next year, then it's more complicated. Assuming they cannot pick up the Manny option, they're probably better with Bay than they would be with whoever they could replace Manny with from the free agent market.

I think it's a good move by Theo, considering the circumstances, but still something he was forced into by the circumstances.

Pudge is a pretty hefty upgrade over Molina. It's projecting to be like a half a win just with Pudge's bat. Of course I'd be happier with a long term solution in place, but getting Pudge for just cash and the notoriously inconsistent Farns is a positive trade for the Yankees.

Cashman getting a legit prospect for Hawkins is a coup, though. Cusick won't ever be Biggio, but he's got a good baseball pedigree, was drafted for his bat, and has met or exceeded expectations in low A and A. And that's not bad for a 35 year old FA with a 5+ era.

46 Also, keep in mind that if Bay does come close to Manny's production, the Sox will have to pay him after 2009, when he will be heading into his age-32 season. What's more, the Bay deal has the Sox giving up two prospects, as opposed to getting two prospects in the Hermida deal. So, it's essentially Manny + cash + two prospects for 1 year and 2 months of Jason Bay.

50 is really a solid prospect? Jaysus, what is going on in Houston??

19 Manny's one of the all-time showboating selfish a-holes...

He has managed to dupe every chowderhead North of Hartford with his goofy, happy-go-manny, hit-iot savant antics, when the fact of the matter is that he has always been, and will always be, about making Manny happy, regardless of whether it