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Roll With It
2008-04-30 11:47
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

Chris Stewart's Yankee debut didn't go s'good last night. He went 0-for-3 at the plate with a strikeout and was repeatedly crossed up by Phil Hughes, resulting in two passed balls. Fortunately, Chad Moeller cleared waivers and has been reinstated on the 25-man roster, forcing Stewart back to Scranton (and off the 40-man via a DFA, though the move hasn't been announced yet). Meanwhile, Chris Britton, who was optioned yesterday, was recalled today following Ross Ohlendorf's 3 1/3-inning outing last night (Alex Rodriguez hitting the DL allows the Yankees to skip the ten-day rule). Of course, Britton could be back on the Scranton shuttle after Ian Kennedy's start tomorrow, as Wilson Betemit is now eligible to come off the DL just in time to fill the hole at his natural position of third base. Chad Jennings reports that Betemit is scheduled to join the Scranton team for a rehab assignment tomorrow.

Andy Pettitte will look to ease the strain on the pen tonight. In his last start he lasted just five innings against the Indians, turning in his worst outing of the year. The Tigers righty-heavy lineup would seem to be a bad match for Pettitte. Indeed, Andy's been hell on lefties in the early going, but righties have been doing well against him. The thing is, that's unusual. On his career, Pettitte has almost no platoon split at all and when he does have one it tends to be a reverse split. Andy pitched a gem in his only outing against Detroit last year (8 IP, 5 H, 1 R). I'd expect some bounce back tonight.

Opposing Andy will be Jeremy Bonderman. Bonderman feels like he's been around forever at this point--as the first-round high school draft pick that steeled Billy Beane's resolve to draft college arms in the "Moneyball" draft, as a key player in the three-team Jeff Weaver/Ted Lilly/Carlos Peña trade, as a 19-game loser on the 113-loss 2003 Tigers team, and as a perennial breakout candidate who still hasn't made that leap--but he's still just 25. Bonderman improved steadily from 2003 to 2006, but last year he fell apart in conjunction with the Tigers' second-half slide that I mentioned in my series preview (first 18 starts: 10-1, 3.53; last ten starts: 1-8 8.23). A sore elbow was the culprit, but he was shut down in early September and expected to make a full recovery over the winter. In the early going, however, he's been maddeningly inconsistent, failing to turn in a single quality start in five outings and pitching inefficiently, with just 58 percent of his pitches going for strikes on the season. Bonderman struck out just ten men in his first four starts (22 2/3 innings) before striking out seven Rangers in 4 2/3 in his last start, but after walking 8 in his first 17 2/3 innings he's now walked 13 in his last 9 2/3. It doesn't bode well for Bonderman that the Yankees drew eight walks of his teammates last night. Also worth noting: while Bonderman has kept his ERA at a respectable 4.28, he has five unearned runs on his ledger already, giving him a 5.93 RA (run average).

Alberto Gonzalez starts in place of Morgan Ensberg at third base tonight. Melky "Got Homers" Cabrera moves up to the sixth spot, ahead of the struggling Robinson Cano, catcher Jose Molina, and Gonzalez.

Update: Stewart was optioned, but not designated for assignment. Rather, to make room for Moeller on the 40-man, Sean Henn, who had been pitching well on rehab assignment with Scranton, was DFAed. Chad Jennings has some reaction to the move.

Comments (170)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-04-30 13:46:30
1.   pistolpete
I like that Gonzalez is playing - Ensberg seems to have fallen into the same bad habits as some of the other regulars, so I'd rather him get a break.

His arm from waaaaaayyy over at third makes me nervous too.

2008-04-30 13:53:48
2.   Cliff Corcoran
1 With regards to Ensberg's defense, he has played 626 major league games at third base and has a dead average fielding percentage and better-than-average range factor and Rate. There's no reason to worry about his play at the hot corner, though he's going to look bad compared to Rodriguez if only because Rodriguez has such a strong arm and is taller and generally more athletic. (Ensberg is listed as 6'2" -- there's no way he's that tall. No way.)
2008-04-30 13:58:12
3.   monkeypants
I'd like to see a Betemit/Ensberg platoon at 3B, or even an Betemit/Gonzalez platoon if they decide to go with AG.
2008-04-30 13:59:12
4.   pistolpete
2 That's probably what it is - re: A-Rod – Alex makes it look so damn easy, anyone else looks like they're struggling to get it over there.
2008-04-30 14:42:25
5.   Shaun P
In any case, Ensberg and Betemit are almost certainly more likely to produce offense over AG, and with Posada out and Cano hacking his way to a sub-.500 OPS (26 OPS+), the Yanks need all the O they can get. AG's .316/.409/.421 (in all of 19 ABs) is just not sustainable over 2 weeks.

That said, the Yanks are second in the AL in homers, 4th in doubles, 4th in SLG, 4th in hits . . . but 8th in walks and 8th in OBP (and thus 7th in runs scored). When they stop hacking, and get the OBP up, the offense should be OK. Jeter, Cano, and Abreu are the worst offenders (OBPs: .305, .216, and .321), and Posada wasn't helping either (.333, but with a .303 AVG and only 3 BB vs 11 K). Giambi's OBP is only .330, but his AVG is only .171, so you figure its bound to improve. I hope.

Say what you want about Giambi, but he's got 5 home runs and has more BB (15) then K (11). Even if he hits just .240, if he keeps this up, he'll be A-OK.

2008-04-30 14:47:58
6.   YankeeInMichigan
Although the Tiger lineup is heavily right-handed, I'll be relieved to see Pettitte neutralize Granderson, who has been on fire since his return.
2008-04-30 14:49:02
7.   Mattpat11
3 As long as I don't ever have to watch Wilson take a throw from the catcher, I'm fine with him playing
2008-04-30 15:04:55
8.   Cliff Corcoran
Update in main post above: Stewart simply optioned, Sean Henn DFAed.
2008-04-30 15:12:06
9.   Mattpat11
Truly you don't want to lose a talent like Chris Stewart. Its takes a special talent to cross up two different pitchers a combined six times.
2008-04-30 15:16:08
10.   JL25and3
From Chad Jennings: "I think Henn can be an effective big leaguer when he's not jerked around between long relief, lefty specialist and spot starter."

Have we really reached that level of bullpen segmentation? Where even the bottom guys on your staff have to be given fixed, specific roles - or else they're being "jerked around," and how can you expect them to function under those conditions?

2008-04-30 15:33:58
11.   Mattpat11
I'VE FIGURED IT OUT

Phil Hughes changed his number to 34. The last two men to wear number 34? Sean Henn and Jaret Wright.

The number is CURSED.

BRING BACK 65.

Or give him 45.

2008-04-30 15:44:50
12.   OldYanksFan
Could it be the entire state of NY has trouble with bad pitchers? Today, this guy, Tom Gorzelanny, TWO HIT the Mets. After this great efford, his ERA is 6.91, WHIP is 1.90. The Mets also made 3 errors, and of the 13 runs Pittsburg scored, NINE were unearned!
2008-04-30 16:10:37
13.   OldYanksFan
AG will a gun, and an acurate one.
2008-04-30 16:10:42
14.   Mattpat11
Hughes is smiling. That's good.
2008-04-30 16:11:03
15.   Mattpat11
Doc wearing a Yankee cap.
2008-04-30 16:16:56
16.   Mattpat11
line drive bunt. That's not good.
2008-04-30 16:20:42
17.   Mattpat11
Bases loaded no out. I predict pop up, strikeout, fly out
2008-04-30 16:21:08
18.   cult of basebaal
well, if they're going to torture us tonite, they're getting it going early

c'mon guys, BIG inning, right now!

2008-04-30 16:22:21
19.   Mattpat11
There's the pop up.
2008-04-30 16:28:12
20.   Mattpat11
That was too close.
2008-04-30 16:28:32
21.   OldYanksFan
19 RBI for Giambi. Put away your matches.
2008-04-30 16:28:44
22.   cult of basebaal
thank.
you.
melky.

an actual HIT with RISP ... with 2 outs, no less

2008-04-30 16:30:13
23.   OldYanksFan
Robbie can really help us now....
2008-04-30 16:30:48
24.   cult of basebaal
forget the hughes to the minors talk, when's the cano to the minors talk going to heat up?
2008-04-30 16:31:03
25.   dianagramr
Oh no .... its Emma's least favorite commercial!
2008-04-30 16:39:57
26.   rbj
I think I could trade off Rod Allen for Guiseppe Franco. At least Franco isn't constantly on, praising every little thing the Tigers do right.
2008-04-30 16:40:00
27.   RIYank
Hey, not much buzz at the Banter tonight...
2008-04-30 16:40:01
28.   weeping for brunnhilde
I'm not watching the game, I'm in a bar working on my dissertation and waiting to see a kick-ass concert, but just wanted to check in.

How are we doing?

2008-04-30 16:40:38
29.   fansince77
Two things: Why was Jeter still on second after Giambi's blast to the gap in LC?

and how about that shitty ass five pitch walk coming in to score. Yankee pitchers consistently rebound from runs with walks.

2008-04-30 16:40:58
30.   weeping for brunnhilde
22 Ooh, great, Melky to the rescue again!

What kind of hit was it? Was it a good ab?

2008-04-30 16:41:24
31.   rsmith51
28 2-1 Yanks
Robbie and Hideki looked terrible at the plate.
2008-04-30 16:41:37
32.   cult of basebaal
28 up 2-1 going into bottom of 2nd
2008-04-30 16:42:47
33.   rsmith51
29 Looked like he mis-read it. I agree that he should have at least been ready to advance.
2008-04-30 16:42:54
34.   OldYanksFan
And Jeter continues to have trouble throwing to 1B.
2008-04-30 16:52:58
35.   RIYank
I could see Andy going seven innings tonight.
2008-04-30 16:55:45
36.   rbj
Geez, Rod Allen, do you have to kiss the guy's butt just for making a throw from third to first?
2008-04-30 17:00:38
37.   RIYank
Dammit. Why not lay off that pitch, Jason??
2008-04-30 17:01:55
38.   rbj
Ah, Sheffield. I was wondering why the boos.
2008-04-30 17:03:09
39.   Mattpat11
Since some completely arbitrary date last year, Sheffield and Giambi are 1-2 in lowest batting average.
2008-04-30 17:05:52
40.   bartap74
11 I hear #21 is available.
2008-04-30 17:09:01
41.   Jeb
40 now that's funny.
2008-04-30 17:11:44
42.   fansince77
Yes I can see how benching Melky last night was the right move now.
2008-04-30 17:11:54
43.   weeping for brunnhilde
31 32 Cheers.

Robby?--so what else is new.

Hideki's an interesting case.

His seemingly endless tappers to second infuriate me, and yet, he's been productive. He's hitting over .300, in fact, no?

Imagine how well he'd hit if he could learn to use the whole field with consistency.

But I won't get on him now, because he's basically productive, his "defense" notwithstanding.

2008-04-30 17:12:27
44.   fansince77
Hit and run here not a bad idea to open holes for Cano?
2008-04-30 17:12:44
45.   weeping for brunnhilde
35 Ah, damn, it's Andy tonight?

I hate missing Andy's starts.

Have I mentioned he's a golden god?

2008-04-30 17:13:36
46.   fansince77
Cano seems like he's "sighing" as he swings.
2008-04-30 17:13:39
47.   RIYank
44 Hmmmm, no.
2008-04-30 17:17:14
48.   fansince77
47 meant that when Cano was up which actually might have led to a hit with his five billionth ground ball to second.
2008-04-30 17:17:34
49.   rsmith51
43 I only threw Hideki in there because he popped up with bases loaded and nobody out in the first. He is doing fine this year.
2008-04-30 17:20:44
50.   3rd gen yankee fan
Robbie is driving me up a wall. His batting average SUCKS and now he gets thrown out by Pudge? I can barely watch the guy.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-04-30 17:21:50
51.   Mattpat11
Crap.
2008-04-30 17:23:00
52.   fansince77
Yeah, kinda saw that coming...sucky ass shit man...still thinking about that first inning that should have been three runs minimally and that shitty walk to Crusty the Clown to start the second.
2008-04-30 17:23:05
53.   RIYank
Urghphlg.
2008-04-30 17:23:08
54.   rbj
Sigh.
Still, I like Thames.
2008-04-30 17:25:25
55.   RIYank
Okay, well, I think we're gonna win this one. Andy will go seven, and we'll get a couple of runs, and the door will be slammed by our bullpen.
2008-04-30 17:28:33
56.   Mattpat11
And the Yankees have packed it in
2008-04-30 17:30:06
57.   fansince77
Wow - when we make outs we really do make them easy for the other team...
2008-04-30 17:30:06
58.   fansince77
Wow - when we make outs we really do make them easy for the other team...
2008-04-30 17:30:29
59.   williamnyy23
This offense isn't struggling. Without Arod and Posada, it is mediocre at best. If the Yankees can't hit the dregs they've faced lately, just wait until they face Bedard and Felix this weekend.

Arod and Posada better get healthy fast, because the Yankees are simply not a very good team without them.

2008-04-30 17:32:06
60.   rbj
Frak!
2008-04-30 17:32:09
61.   tommyl
Maybe Andy needs some time at AAA
2008-04-30 17:32:49
62.   Mattpat11
We;re just non competitive.
2008-04-30 17:34:22
63.   RIYank
Those homers didn't look like such bad pitches. Inside of the plate.
2008-04-30 17:35:33
64.   williamnyy23
At some point, Cashman needs to give Bonds a call. It make no sense to watch your offense flounder, while one of the best hitters of all time is begging for a job.
2008-04-30 17:35:35
65.   weeping for brunnhilde
Oh, no.

What's the score?

2008-04-30 17:36:39
66.   Mattpat11
65 4-2
2008-04-30 17:38:07
67.   cult of basebaal
gah!

i don't know what's pissing me off more ...

mlb.tv has decided to black me out of EVERY game i try to watch (started yesterday)

or ...

the yankees aren't playing well enough to make it worth my while to bother getting the damn service back ...

2008-04-30 17:38:14
68.   bartap74
As Yogi might say, April has been a long year.
2008-04-30 17:41:03
69.   fansince77
I love that Pettite is not afraid to go inside but it seems his last two starts that he has almost refused to go outside. Say what you want but the outside fastball is nearly unhittable and he has abandoned it. Tonight is a perfect example...Pettite has not thrown many bad pitches at all...but he it doesn't take many mistakes on and INSIDE fastball to hurt you. Make a mistake on the outside corner and your still around in the seventh/eighth inning.
2008-04-30 17:41:45
70.   RIYank
65 Two homers against Andy. Both on inside, uh, fastballs? Change-ups?
2008-04-30 17:43:34
71.   Just fair
64 I'd prefer to slowly lose my mind watching this offense spit the bit for 6 months than have to root for Bonds. But that's just me.
2008-04-30 17:44:04
72.   RIYank
69 Were they fastballs? Oh, that was his cutter. And he's a lefty. Now it's all making sense...
2008-04-30 17:44:34
73.   williamnyy23
71 I'd prefer for the Yankees to win games.
2008-04-30 17:45:20
74.   fansince77
Offense still has plenty of time to wake up tonight and stop sitting on the two freaking first inning runs. It always seems like when we get a lead its like....ah that'll probably be enough...why bother.
2008-04-30 17:45:45
75.   Yankees Brasil
Glad to see Pettitte joining the suck party. This team is hopeless.
2008-04-30 17:46:34
76.   fansince77
73 I wouldn't want Bonds even if it bought us a playoff berth.
2008-04-30 17:47:02
77.   williamnyy23
69 The problem is that Pettitte has had to be perfect because the offense is awful. If we expect the Yankees to win 3-2 and 4-3 games, well, it's not happening. Either this offense busts out, or the Yankees don't play in October. Without Arod and Posada, this lineup will not hit. I don't think it's too early for Cashman to consider some significant moves.
2008-04-30 17:47:19
78.   Jeb
If the Yankees sign Bonds it would accelerate the trial....let's do it.
2008-04-30 17:47:51
79.   williamnyy23
76 That's a fundamental difference then. I root for the Yankees to win...not for players that I personally like.
2008-04-30 17:48:18
80.   Yankees Brasil
I want what's best for the Yankees, and I really think Bonds can help us win some games. So yeah, I do want the Yankees to get Bonds.
2008-04-30 17:48:39
81.   Jeb
I guess we'll just get swept tomorrow night. I'm glad we're helping the Tigers turn it all around.
2008-04-30 17:48:57
82.   tommyl
The shift takes a basehit away from Giambi? No, Giambi hitting it to the same damn place everytime took it away from himself. That's like saying everytime A-Rod grounds out to third that those pesky fielders took a basehit away from him.
2008-04-30 17:52:45
83.   3rd gen yankee fan
76 Me neither. If Bonds joins the team I'll take the rest of the year off. The hell with it.
2008-04-30 17:53:24
84.   claybeez
I have no problem with a Bonds signing if an agreement were reached to curtail the clubhouse distractions that were within his control. I'm not advocating signing him. I just don't see the big deal. If Rocket still had something left would Cashman refuse to sign him?
2008-04-30 17:54:51
85.   Yankees Brasil
84 You gotta get players to help your team win. If Bonds can do that, so be it, sign him.
2008-04-30 17:54:59
86.   fansince77
82 I can't fault Giambi for that particular out because he hit where it was pitched...that's all you can do with that pitch and he mangled it. Bonderman is smart enough to pitch into the shift

That being said- where Giambi's fault lies is in never showing he can do anything else BUT hit it there. So I agree with you.

Giambi's average is what 150? Well maybe he's rationalized that since he's only using half of the field it is actually .300.

2008-04-30 17:56:43
87.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
Honestly don't think it's too soon to make judgements about this team..too old, too many pitching holes, streaky (at best) offense..wild card will be lucky this year...or am I being too emotional because MLB.com refuses to let me watch the latest Yankee loss, again??
2008-04-30 17:58:08
88.   Max
Man, I check into Gameday to see Bonderman throw 30 pitches in the first inning and give up 2 runs, then I go away, come back to see that it's been six innings and Bonderman's thrown 78 pitches.

Meanwhile, Andy's caved for the second straight outing and given up five runs before the seventh, and our offense remains pathetic. Ugh.

2008-04-30 17:58:10
89.   Just fair
It's a piece a a cake to hate Bonds. It's hard to not like Curtis Granderson. The Tiger fans are lucky to get to watch him 81 times a year.
2008-04-30 17:58:44
90.   Jeb
I hate Barry Bonds and won't pretend I don't. I'm biased as hell against him. I'd take a year off too. I want the Yankees to win but not at the cost of signing Bonds. I also wouldn't begin injecting the players with drugs that are guaranteed to be undetectable and would guarantee that they win (if such a drug existed). I want to win, I love the Yankees, but winning alone doesn't do it for me. I guess there's something to be said for HOW you win. And there's something about the chase and earning it that I love. Bonds really didn't "earn it" because he cheated with steroids that made him go from a 500+ homer guy to a 700+ homer guy.

Also, I really don't think that Bonds is a difference maker of the sort that would guarantee the Yanks a division title or a World Series anyway. We'd score more runs and win a few more games. But Bonds can't pitch or play catcher, and we have deeper problems than his OBP can fix.

2008-04-30 17:59:40
91.   williamnyy23
Hughes was placed on the 15-day DL with a strained right oblique. Interesting.
2008-04-30 18:00:13
92.   williamnyy23
90 But you are ok with Giambi?
2008-04-30 18:00:48
93.   tommyl
92 He might have some pinkeye too.
2008-04-30 18:00:51
94.   Just fair
Christ, at this rate both Igawa AND Rasner are going to be in rotation.
2008-04-30 18:01:33
95.   williamnyy23
Big Papi homers...Sox en route to another 1-0 win and a well pitched game. This season could get away fast. I am not sure this team can repeat what it did last year over the final 4 months.
2008-04-30 18:03:39
96.   cult of basebaal
91 source?
2008-04-30 18:04:05
97.   Jeb
92 moreso than Bonds. There's some differences. Giambi didn't set any all-time records and screw up the statistics that many of us love and follow. Giambi's cheating did not put him in the debate for greatest of all time. He's not under a federal indictment for perjury...He apologized for what he did.

He's not, in a word, recalcitrant like Barry Bonds is.

2008-04-30 18:04:35
98.   Just fair
Yeah, Boston is on fire. They've won 2 of 7 games and have a 3 game lead. Just wait until this offense starts clicking. Well, that's what I keep telling myself.
2008-04-30 18:05:23
99.   Just fair
96 Yes network Michael Kay
2008-04-30 18:06:31
100.   Jeb
98 All I can really think to write is 11-19 and 9-14 in 2005 and 2007 respectively and the yanks made the post-season. So I'm frustrated and pissed but not giving up.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-04-30 18:09:15
101.   williamnyy23
97 I don't follow that logic. Either you refuse to accept any "cheaters" (Bonds, Giambi, Pettitte, etc.) or you accept that steroids was a league wide problem. I don't see what the accomplishments of each player has to do with it.

It just seems that you don't like Barry Bonds. That's fine, but I wouldn't let my dislike of a player prevent me from wanting him to help my team win. That's just how I feel...and respect your right to feel differently.

2008-04-30 18:09:42
102.   Just fair
I'm still in the camp of "How the hell is this team a game from 500 to begin with?" Yes, thiings could worse.
2008-04-30 18:10:36
103.   OldYanksFan
Is Phil really injured? Could there be some strategy to this move? Any thoughts?
2008-04-30 18:10:49
104.   Max
So who's the scapegoat this year for all these injuries? Any conditioning coaches we can fire?

Can't wait to see how Girardi spins this latest one re Hughes. He's definitely getting a trial by fire in dealing with the media...and failing miserably so far.

2008-04-30 18:10:59
105.   williamnyy23
This is a very early test for Girardi. The walls are collapsing around him, so how he responds will go along way toward defining his tenure. With Torre, at least we knew he could handle this part of the equation. The concerning thing about Girardi isn't he hasn't shown himself to be a better game manager than Torre.
2008-04-30 18:12:26
106.   williamnyy23
98 Yes, but there pitching is picking it up. With Lowell back and Ortiz starting to hit, the Red Sox, who are 17-12, will start winning. The Yankees can't afford to flounder much longer.
2008-04-30 18:12:45
107.   Jeb
101 so If Charles Manson could pitch like Cy Young and the State of California would let him pitch, would you want him on the Yankees?

I wrote in my first post on the subject that I am biased and do not like Barry Bonds.

2008-04-30 18:13:49
108.   williamnyy23
100 It's nice to have those experiences to fall back on, but you can't go to the well too often. I don't think the Yankees can afford to sleep walk through May this year.
2008-04-30 18:14:51
109.   williamnyy23
103 In a weird way, I hope he is injured because it would explain a lot.
2008-04-30 18:14:59
110.   Jeb
101 the fallacy of your logic is that you don't recognize degrees of reprehensibility or a place where a line can be crossed. That's fine. I don't expect all players to be perfect on the Yankees. I look at the player and whether he owns up to it -- Like Andy and Jason. I consider "how significantly has this player hurt the game"? By your logic ANYONE that can help the team should be signed and that's where we part company.
2008-04-30 18:15:36
111.   williamnyy23
Kyle gives up a HR; Past a diving Jeter...now it really looks like the Yankees.
2008-04-30 18:16:11
112.   tommyl
Good to see that cutter is really working for him.
2008-04-30 18:16:28
113.   Jeb
108 I agree. I'm just trying to keep things in perspective that they could be much worse.
2008-04-30 18:16:58
114.   williamnyy23
107 Comparing Manson to Bonds is kind of silly. Like I said, I appreciate your right to dislike Bonds, but don't buy "the winning the right way" argument.
2008-04-30 18:18:31
115.   Jeb
114 why is it silly? If he could help the team wouldn't you want him? Forget manson, what if a player beat the shit out of his wife and it came out in the press? Would you want that player on the team if he was our #1 pitcher? I wouldn't.
2008-04-30 18:19:03
116.   Just fair
110 If Charles Manson could mentor Kyle Farsnworth and make him move to California, would YOU want him on the Yankees? : )
2008-04-30 18:19:32
117.   Jeb
and I don't want any unapologetic juicers -- from Bonds to Canseco to Sheff to Roger Clemens.
2008-04-30 18:20:31
118.   Jeb
116 different issue, but absolutely. Maybe Kyle would fit in with the family.
2008-04-30 18:20:54
119.   williamnyy23
115 Because Bonds didn't orchestrate mass murder. Comparing Bonds' actions to Manson's is absurd. Bonds' alleged actions are not even nearly as bad as the wife beating pitcher you cited. I can see not wanting to root for someone who committed such reprehensible acts, but Bonds isn't of accussed of doing anything that many other haven't also.
2008-04-30 18:22:58
120.   Jeb
119 then I draw the line a little tighter than you do. I don't want murderers, wife beaters, OR unapologetic recalitrant steroid users. So let's move on and agree to disagree.

By the way, we can debate this or debate that the ocean will turn into chocolate all we want and neither is going to happen.

2008-04-30 18:26:59
121.   williamnyy23
120 I am definitely not trying to change your mind...just stating that I disagree.
2008-04-30 18:34:01
122.   williamnyy23
Jeter looks very, very bad.
2008-04-30 18:34:01
123.   williamnyy23
Jeter looks very, very bad.
2008-04-30 18:35:06
124.   fansince77
Granderson sure covered a bunch of ground there...effortlessly.

This is all I got left.

moments of admiration for the other team. how sad.

2008-04-30 18:36:35
125.   tommyl
I know we've given up and all, but Shelley Duncan? hello?
2008-04-30 18:37:57
126.   tommyl
From PeteAbe:

For the record, Girardi said Hughes was healthy when asked before the game. I guess Hughes got hurt while sitting on the bench.

end quote

So that's it?! Apparently all our players are getting hurt on the bench! Maybe we need to get some lazy boy recliners back there or something.

2008-04-30 18:41:39
127.   cult of basebaal
is "The Make A Wish Kid" in uniform tonite? christ, WTF does britton have to do to get a fucking chance with this team???
2008-04-30 18:42:34
128.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
seriously, i am fine for a rebuilding year. keep runing the kids out there, let Farnsworth,Giambi and Mussina come off the books, and aim for that 2010 championship.
2008-04-30 18:44:56
129.   williamnyy23
Jays lead off with a single against Papelbon, and then the PR gets picked off. Great.
2008-04-30 18:45:30
130.   randym77
I don't think Hughes is really hurt. They just wanted to get him out of the rotation without the emotional trauma of sending him back to AAA.
2008-04-30 18:47:56
131.   williamnyy23
128 As someone seriously addicted to these game, I can't be so cavalier. I'll be watching 150+ win or lose, so I am not quite ready to turn the page to 2010.
2008-04-30 18:48:24
132.   OldYanksFan
130 I was thinking that, but it seems silly. Is he going to work out? 15 days is 3 starts. Is he that out of wack?
2008-04-30 18:50:39
133.   tommyl
132 Nardi, send him to Tampa to "rehab"
2008-04-30 18:51:04
134.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
128 I know what you mean, but the Big Daddy Stein diktats of WS or bust is not the way to construct a winning baseball team. The club this year is simply not a championship team. I would find it much more exciting to watch all the young arms get some starts. Watching the Tampa Sun Rays this year is much more fun than watching Giambi or Damon or Mussina..
2008-04-30 18:51:21
135.   williamnyy23
With the final year of the Stadium and the All Star Game, this would be a very dreary year to fall out of the race early.
2008-04-30 18:52:50
136.   williamnyy23
134 I don't know...I don't get excited watching young arms implode. I've enjoyed that last 13 years of playoff seasons, so I have no problem watching lumbering vets.
2008-04-30 18:53:32
137.   SF Yanks
I say we let Mo start. Think about it. He'll run through lineups like nobody's business. I know he's a failed starter but he's a different pitcher now. Ok kidding, but still, it would be interesting to see.
2008-04-30 18:54:02
138.   randym77
132 IIRC, a "strained oblique" was the injury Andy Phillips conveniently suffered a couple of years ago, when everyone was expecting him to be DFA'd.

He ended up being sent to Tampa to rehab his "injury." (Pete Abe reported it that way, with "injury" in quotation marks.)

2008-04-30 18:54:17
139.   williamnyy23
I'd love to see Girardi do a Leyland today.
2008-04-30 18:55:33
140.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
136 we've all enjoyed it, but at some point don't you HAVE to pull back and inject some youth? I think a future of Wang, Hughes, Sanchez, Cano, Tabata and Jackson alongside old men Jeter and A-Rod is pretty exciting..
2008-04-30 18:56:54
141.   Mattpat11
I'm beginning to get annoyed.
2008-04-30 18:57:37
142.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
139 yes please...no excuse for listless play.
2008-04-30 18:57:42
143.   Just fair
And the game ends not with a bang, but a whimper. So, Kennedy tomorrow....
2008-04-30 18:57:46
144.   williamnyy23
140 They have and are injecting youth. An all out rebuild seems unnecessary though. If Arod and Posada were healthy, the offense would be fine. The problem so far has been the youth (Kennedy and Hughes).
2008-04-30 18:57:56
145.   tommyl
Ugh, that was awful, just awful. I don't even know if I can bear to watch tomorrow. Maybe just go out drinking with friends instead.
2008-04-30 19:00:59
146.   tommyl
On the plus side, this should be one interesting postgame.
2008-04-30 19:02:13
147.   OldYanksFan
145 How about if we all do a shot everytime IPK walks someone?
2008-04-30 19:04:16
148.   tommyl
147 I only have two bottles of scotch and one half of vodka left.
2008-04-30 19:04:36
149.   Mattpat11
The only thing that could make this worse is if Igawa replaces Hughes
2008-04-30 19:05:35
150.   cult of basebaal
147 we can pick sides ... some of us can be the offense, some the defense/pitching ... defense and pitching has to take a shot whenever IPK (or a bully arm) walks somebody (2 shots if i leads off an inning) and the offense can take a shot every time someone fails to drive in a RISP

in the words of the immortal Troy McClure, "ahhhh ... sweet liquor eases the pain"

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-04-30 19:06:58
151.   tommyl
149 At this point, I'd take Leiter and Cone, sigh.

Best part of the commentary tonight was the debate between Flaherty and Leiter about throwing strikes. Flaherty saying sometimes you need to simplify and just pound the zone. Leiter talking about how you have to be more careful than that. Ah, Senator Al, we miss your 30 minute innings with only one baserunner.

2008-04-30 19:07:08
152.   williamnyy23
Red Sox win in the 9th...this year is very quickly taking on a bad feeling.
2008-04-30 19:07:22
153.   tommyl
150 Double shot for every groundout on the first pitch?
2008-04-30 19:08:54
154.   Mattpat11
And I'm really getting tired of the organization lying to us. Everything doesn't have to be this big fucking cloak and dagger super double secret bullshit.
2008-04-30 19:12:11
155.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
152 Yep. Sox clearly the better team right now, not even close
154 yep here too..
147 want to join in but it's morning here..can't even go to bed after another horrible loss!
2008-04-30 19:13:00
156.   tommyl
Ok, positives for tonight...well, Edwar sort of kinda pitched ok. So did LaTroy. Ummmm....Melky had a couple of hits. That's sort of...it. Sigh.
2008-04-30 19:17:01
157.   Mr OK Jazz TOKYO
the SF Giants are now one game behind the Yankees... Good night everyone!
2008-04-30 19:22:47
158.   williamnyy23
154 I could care less. Cloak and dagger seems to work well for the Patriots. No one would care if the team was playing well. It just gives sportswriters something to complain about.
2008-04-30 19:23:48
159.   randym77
151 LOL. Al Leiter said he never realized how annoying his slowness was until he moved to the booth. He said he'd have gone nuts if he had to watch himself.

Pete Abe seems to think Rasner will get the call. I suppose Igawa is a possibility, too. There must be a reason why they've refused to trade him.

And the YES guys suggested yesterday that Ohlendorf might be stretched out and made into a starter. They pointed out that he gave the Yankees 3.1 innings yesterday (vs. 3.2 for Hughes).

2008-04-30 19:24:42
160.   Mattpat11
154 What the hell does lying about EVERYTHING accomplish?
2008-04-30 19:25:42
161.   williamnyy23
Torre's indiffernce in the postgame was annoying, but I am not sure Girardi's depression is much better. I thought he might be a little more "fiery" after games like this one, but Girardi seems flat out sad.
2008-04-30 19:26:48
162.   Shaun P
154 I think the bigger problem is that the beat writers don't like being knowingly bs'ed by the manager. I'm sure they can still turn up the pressure, and Girardi doesn't seem to be dealing with that pressure very well right now. Not good.

The cloak and dagger bs is what the Pats do, right down to the phantom injuries (Tom Brady is questionable this week with _________), and it makes it miserable for everyone. I fail to see the benefit.

Oh well. Tomorrow is a new May.

2008-04-30 19:27:10
163.   williamnyy23
160 Who cares? It seems as if the organization's philosophy is to withhold as much information as possible until a decision is definitive. Not only don't I have a problem with that, I endorse it. The Yankees don't need to broadcast their problems until absolutely necessary.
2008-04-30 19:28:50
164.   williamnyy23
162 I guess I just don't care how difficult it is for beat writers to do their job. If the Yankees see an advantage in keeping things close to the vest, good for them. I could care less if Pete Abraham needs to work harder for his stories.
2008-04-30 19:29:52
165.   tommyl
Sigh, this has been a depressing week for Yankee fans. Its actually affecting my day to day mood. I was so excited for this season and its all going wrong. Long season, need to maintain perspective, but right now it just feels lousy.
2008-04-30 19:31:42
166.   Shaun P
159 Ohlendorf used to start. He couldn't maintain his stuff for 5+ innings; that's why he was moved to the pen in the first place.

160 Nothing positive.

158 I'm not sure there's been any solid proof the cloak and dagger bs does work for the Pats. Yes, they've won a lot, but is that because of the talented players and coaching staff, or because Belichik lists 3/4ths of his roster on the injury report and doesn't let his coaching staff talk to the media ever?

Not to alarm you all, but the Yanks need a starter for Sunday, and that's apparently Igawa's regular turn for SWB. Of course, Rasner's regular turn is Friday, so he could fill in too. I hope its Rasner, not Igawa.

2008-04-30 19:36:42
167.   Shaun P
164 Me too, except that plenty of people (eg, probably those morons booing Hawkins) still read the papers, and if all the papers are writing stories that cast Girardi in a poor light - coupled with the losing - its like the bad old 80s all over again.

I think that harms the team.

And I don't think its a matter of making the writers work harder. Its a matter of bullshitting the writers for no good reason, when they are not idiots. What advantage did the Yanks gain by all of a sudden announcing that Hughes has a strained oblique? That Seattle now has only three and a half days to prepare their hitters to face Rasner/Igawa, instead of four? What is the point?

2008-04-30 19:42:34
168.   williamnyy23
166 That's kind of my point. Media disclosure doesn't win games; good players playing well do.

167 If writers want to rip Girardi, so be it. I don't think it makes a difference in the success or failure of the team.

The point is Hughes was not going on the DL until 6:30. What is the point of announcing to the world (and the Mariners) that Hughes might be hindered a little in his next start? It works both ways. I'd rather the Yankees error on not giving the opposition too much information, even if it means a sportswriter feels violated.

2008-04-30 20:46:07
169.   Mattpat11
168 But what do they accomplish by, for example, lying about what day they're sending someone out for an MRI?

And if you made the decision to invent a fake injury for Phil Hughes, does it really matter if you tell everyone that he got pretend hurt before the game or in the middle of the game? Does Joe Girardi have to tell everyone he's not hurt before the game and then put him on the DL two hours later?

I don't really care about the beat writers. I care about me, the guy that spends all this money on the team. I spend thousands on this team every year. I don't like that I have to play games to get even the simplest little detail out of this team.

2008-05-01 14:23:22
170.   cult of basebaal
169 well, if the yankees are lying about hughes, they're certainly moving all in on the story

petey is reporting that hughes has been diagnosed with a "stress fracture of the 9th rib" and is shut down for at least 4 weeks

pity for alan horne ...

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