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Let's Talk, Turkey (or, Let's Make a Dope Deal)
2007-11-14 13:56
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

Over at ESPN, Buster Olney confirms the Daily News report from earlier today that Alex Rodriguez is in fact talking directly to the Yankees, sans Scott Boras, about staying in New York. Here's the story.

Comments (136)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-11-14 14:07:34
1.   tommyl
Hi Alex, how about 7 years at $13 million? That's what we pay all of our position players. What's that, you think you are better than Posada? Well, let's just ask him...
2007-11-14 14:11:59
2.   E-Rocker
Can Peter Gammons ever let someone other than the Red Sox get credit for anything? Here is the beginning paragraph of his article regarding the Cy Young: While C. C. Sabathia earned the Cy Young, Josh Beckett earned his place alongside Johan Santana as the best pitcher in baseball.

One of the reasons Beckett was good and reliable and fresh in October -- taking the role of a No. 1 starter, carrying his team through three straight series and winning a world championship for the second time in five years -- is because he didn't have to do what Sabathia did in the regular season. And the award is based solely on the regular season.

Sabathia threw 40 more innings, faced 143 more batters and threw 478 more pitches than Beckett. He picked up the slack with Jake Westbrook disabled, and Cliff Lee and Jeremy Sowers back in Buffalo, and deserves top 10 MVP votes for getting the Indians to a tie with the Red Sox for best record in baseball. But all those innings, batters and pitches showed in October. Velocity is never an indicator of wear or injury -- command is. And the man with the 5.24 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio was clearly gassed trying to deal with the hitting approach of Boston's hitters.

His bias is really becoming way too apparent in his writing.

2007-11-14 14:16:53
3.   Mattpat11
Peter Gammons has become little more than a Red Sox PR man.
2007-11-14 14:18:51
4.   Mattpat11
I wonder if a provision in the A-Rod contract can be that he can't behave like a moron. Like a morals clause.
2007-11-14 14:26:29
5.   Simone
I am reposting from below:

Don't stop believin, Hold on to the feelin', Streetlight people:

"He reached out to us through a third party," Steinbrenner said in a telephone interview. "He has expressed a desire to stay a Yankee. He's even willing to make certain sacrifices to do so."

http://tinyurl.com/32zuzz

2007-11-14 14:27:41
6.   Eric
Now, let us all gather 'round a pray our new third basemen is not mentioned in any godforsaken "Mitchell Report"
2007-11-14 14:30:49
7.   standuptriple
6 You mean the "Mitchell Report" being compiled by a Sox faithful? If it's anything like I expect from Big Gov't it will be a letdown. I hope our tax $ are enjoying the spotlight though.
2007-11-14 14:35:47
8.   standuptriple
4 Where does the infamous "Ha!" fall under that clause?
2007-11-14 14:37:53
9.   yankster
4 A moron clause would be worth millions annually to the Yankees. I'd love to see them throw in a moron event clause - three or more moron events in a season kill the no-trade.
2007-11-14 14:39:22
10.   tommyl
We could pull an Arroyo on him. Take a hometown discount and then ship him off for a ton of prospects ;)
2007-11-14 14:39:22
11.   51cq24
8 maybe it should just be off-field conduct.
2007-11-14 14:40:38
12.   rbj
I've got no problem with a certain player returning, but I'm not holding my breath. It takes care of the thirdbase issue and right handed power issue. Betemit is fine coming off the bench.

Now we just need for Mo to accept the 3 year/$5 mil (it's a damn fine offer Mo) and have Andy come back.

2007-11-14 14:42:05
13.   standuptriple
12 And not sleepwalk in April.
2007-11-14 14:45:35
14.   Jersey
Y'all saw that ARod is openly admitting the meeting himself, on his own Web site, right?
2007-11-14 14:46:01
15.   Mattpat11
9 It would be something where every time he says or does something off the field that is clearly designed to start a media circus, he gets fined.

Obviously this never could happen, but it would make things so much easier.

2007-11-14 14:50:49
16.   Shaun P
15 The fish rags would hate such a clause.

I wonder if it would really work though.

10 "Hey Ned, we know you guys were sad that you didn't sign A-Rod. So, how about we give you A-Rod, and in return, you give us four of Chad Billingsley, Clayton Kershaw, Andy LaRoche, James Loney, and Matt Kemp. You know, the deal the Marlins wanted for Cabrera.

I know A-Rod is older than Miguel, but he's in far better shape, he can actually play 3B - or even SS! - and he and Joe are likethis."

;)

2007-11-14 14:58:26
17.   standuptriple
10 , 16 I love the level of evil that this thread just took. Many thanks.
2007-11-14 14:59:13
18.   OldYanksFan
Jim Caple, Red Sox fan:
"You're joking, right? You can't be serious. Sixty-one percent of you who responded to our Page 2 poll on Tuesday wouldn't want baseball's best player on your favorite team? You'd be disappointed if your team signed a (soon-to-be) three-time MVP and Gold Glove winner who can play third base or shortstop? You don't want a player who could become the all-time home run king? If that's really true, I have another poll question for you:

You don't want the modern-day offensive equivalent of Babe Ruth on your team? Seriously? Do you feel this way because your drug problem is that severe, or because the American educational system is that bad? Or do you simply listen to too much sports talk radio?"

2007-11-14 15:00:09
19.   OldYanksFan
More from Caple:
Look, I'm no A-Rod apologist. He's a diva, and a bigger phony than most team owners. But you know what? That doesn't matter. Did Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth get along? Was Ted Williams considered a "winner"? Did every teammate like Reggie Jackson? Does Manny Ramirez even know what team he plays for?

HA!

2007-11-14 15:04:44
20.   OldYanksFan
Must read: http://tinyurl.com/yw4ue8... That sound you hear...
2007-11-14 15:08:20
21.   Mattpat11
I agree with him. Alex Rodriguez is a jackass. I don't like the guy. I think he thinks of no one but himself.

But I still want that level of talent on his team.

2007-11-14 15:09:26
22.   weeping for brunnhilde
All this emotional roller-coastering is bad for my system.

Someone wake me when Alex has a signed, sealed and delivered contract.

I dare not start to hope again...

2007-11-14 15:14:33
23.   standuptriple
22 I agree with that mindset. Diss me once, shame on you.
2007-11-14 15:16:05
24.   Shaun P
21 Yep. Its the same reason why we'd all be thrilled for the Yanks to land Miggy Cabrera - weight, work ethic, and partying issues. (Besides - there is no one more qualified to teach a young man how to party hard and remain a great ballplayer than Mr. Derek Jeter.)

Or if the Yanks had gotten pre-decline phase Manny. The dude hits, and that helps the team win. The rest is irrelevant.

This is why signing Bonds to DH 110 games and play LF 25 games (and pinch hit the rest of the time!) would be a fantastic thing, whatever you think of the man as a human being.

2007-11-14 15:16:39
25.   mehmattski
Wow. I step away from the computer and this thing goes from wild speculation to, depending on the source, somewhere between plausible and done. A-Rod posting on his site. Mark Feinsand saying it's a done deal. Incredible.

In the first place, I'm one of those fans who cheers for the front of the jersey, not the back, so I don't really care about the personal character of the person inhabiting the jersey. But I realize that there are many fans who don't feel like me and don't want a (for example) a Sheffield, a Bonds, or an A-Rod on their favorite team. So, for the sake of those who do care about such things, I say A-Rod's gotta fire Boras if he wants full forgiveness in the Bronx.

He won't get forgiveness from Peter Gammons, of course. To him, the timing of Boras' announcement was like Randy Moss' "mooning" at Lambeau was for Joe Buck...

2007-11-14 15:16:51
26.   Shaun P
24 Argh. "weight, work ethic, and partying issues aside."
2007-11-14 15:18:47
27.   Mattpat11
25 I think Yankee fans can forgive him. I don't think we're stupid enough to forget.
2007-11-14 15:19:36
28.   Knuckles
Caple's an M's fan, and a doofus.
2007-11-14 15:20:51
29.   cult of basebaal
25 i think "forgetiveness" only truly comes with an 800 pound gorilla of a post-season, preferably against the hated ones ...
2007-11-14 15:27:19
30.   cult of basebaal
wheeee! the crazy isn't over yet! and now the needle tips back towards the machiavellian machinations of sith lord boras ...

Michael Weiner, general counsel for the Players Association, told Newsday's Ken Davidoff, "the union has been assured that the Yankees will respect Alex's decision to designate Scott Boras as his representative."

2007-11-14 15:33:57
31.   ms october
22 et al I agree. If he's back, great he obviously fits a huge need - if not, we move on again.

One other thing about this whole drama though - no matter what happens, the Yanks, should not completely alienate Boras no matter what some people think of him, as not only does he have other clients that the Yanks may need/want (perhaps a Texeria), but he is scooping up so many draftees, that the Yanks don't need him f'ing up our drafts the next few years as it is so clear that it is imperative to develop and keep good young players.

2007-11-14 15:34:04
32.   Shaun P
30 But that doesn't mean that A-Rod can't hear the offers himself and then tell Boras, "Scott, make this happen, and the money they're offering is fine." Or just listen to general stuff and then tell Boras, "I want to be intimately involved in the negotiations, and I will tell you what to agree to and what is unacceptable."

The agent works for the player, even if there are some agents and players who forget this.

2007-11-14 15:34:18
33.   OldYanksFan
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/11/alex_rodriguez_could_return_to.html

Alex Rodriguez is closing in on a $280 million deal to remain with the Yankees, just weeks after his relationship with the team seemed to be severed.

"Alex has reached out to us through a third party," Steinbrenner said today. "It kind of looks like he wants to stay."

Steinbrenner hinted that Rodriguez might make concessions on his salary to make up for the lost Rangers subsidy.

"It looks like he's willing to make certain sacrifices to stay a Yankee," Steinbrenner said.

#27 anybody?

2007-11-14 15:35:18
34.   monkeypants
This A-Rod development is curious indeed. What do we all think the deal really is:

A. Lowell on the market lowered A-Rod's leverage vis-a-vis the Yanks, forcing A-Rod back to the Yanks.

B. A-Rod/Boras totally misplayed their hand, opted out, and found no suitors, forcing A-Rod back to the Yanks.

C. This is all a ploy to lure the Yanks into talks, which A-Rod/Boras hope will spark the bidding war they expected.

D. None of the above.

2007-11-14 15:35:18
35.   standuptriple
30 I think that's somewhat misleading as well. Boras is still his rep, the Yanks just don't want him in the room. Sounds like lawyer Bob Loblaw to me.
2007-11-14 15:38:31
36.   ms october
35 Yeah, it doesn't seem Boras is fired or anything. The Yanks probably wanted to hear from Arod's mouth what was up before proceeding.
2007-11-14 15:41:34
37.   RIYank
36 Right. I think the "no Boras!" part was probably hyped up a little by the press.

I'm not worried about alienating Boras, anyway. Boras will always do what he thinks will make the most money for his guys -- spiting the Yankees for screwing with him just isn't in his m.o.

2007-11-14 15:41:39
38.   OldYanksFan
34 (B) NO ONE except the Yankes will go 10 years. No One is going over $250m except the Yanks. MCab on the market didn't hurt either.
2007-11-14 15:41:45
39.   cult of basebaal
34

I think the likelihood A and B are limited by the fact that so little time has passed that the true market for a-rod has not really developed yet

which of course makes C all the more likely, but there is actually a non-zero chance that the following is true

D. a-rod actually wants to retire a yankee

2007-11-14 15:47:45
40.   Shaun P
34 Its either B (they screwed up) or C (using the Yanks to start a bidding war).

I hope its B. I fear its C.

But if it is a bidding war fake, the Yanks will know soon. They will want a deal done fast to make sure its not that. If Boras and A-Rod stall, that's a bad sign.

Of course, if there's an article in the LA Times in the next two days that says "Angels prepared to offer A-Rod 10 years, $300M" we (and the Yanks) will also know it was just a ploy.

2007-11-14 15:48:03
41.   standuptriple
Or he cares too much about his image and still needs Yankee $.
2007-11-14 15:49:54
42.   mehmattski
0 From the article Alex linked us:
"Many possible suitors, from the Tigers to the Marlins to the Giants, have either stated flatly that they were not in the A-Rod Sweepstakes, or that it is highly unlikely that they would be."

Um... why do supposedly self-respecting journalists continue to report that the Florida Marlins are a "possible suitor" for Alex Rodriguez? Is it the fact that the Marlins are actively shopping the only two players on their roster that make more than $2M per season? Or perhaps it's because signing A-Rod would increase the Marlins' payroll by 150 percent? This keeps bothering me, and it seems only because Larry Beinfest, when asked after the World Series about A-Rod, said, with a smirk, "we're not ruling it out."

It makes me think most of journalism is just a bunch of groupthink.

You know what I heard? A source close to the Kansas City Royals, speaking under anonymity, confirmed that the Royals "had not ruled out" signing Barry Bonds. Now go report that everywhere, sheep!

2007-11-14 15:50:50
43.   ChrisS
34

A) ... for a raise, which is a bargain compared with the $35mill/year for ten years that no one offered.

B) ... for a raise, which is a bargain compared with the $35mill/year for ten years that no one offered.

C) ... because no one offered anything remotely close to what they wanted.

Unfortunately, I think the Yankees are getting played here unless they get A-Rod for less than $25 million / season

2007-11-14 15:52:18
44.   ms october
40 Yeah, I think we will know fairly soon which one.

Whoever was worried about this being a boring off-season shouldn't have fretted - we are almost to Thanksgiving.

Sorry if this was posted and I missed it - it is a little late, but for OYF and the other big Bonds' backers - the Yanks may have some competition.
http://tinyurl.com/2ytp4s

2007-11-14 15:57:03
45.   monkeypants
Pet Abe is reporting this as a done deal. And if so, 43 will not be happy.
2007-11-14 16:01:48
46.   Shaun P
43 45 Under the old deal, the Yanks were going to pay A-Rod $20M (in 2008), and $25M (in both 2009 and 2010 - or he could have opted out again), and then, under the extension, $30M from 2011 to at least 2015, maybe 2017 (total of $280M), if the Yanks did get him back for $275M, that sounds like a win to me.

Damn.

2007-11-14 16:02:06
47.   Simone
If this is a done deal, then I'm stunned that Alex came back to the Yankees. No one must have even sniffed close to the Yankees original offer. However, if Pete is right about the terms of the deal, Alex hasn't sacrificed anything and the Yankees are still out that $20 million that they were going to get from Texas. It is incredible that the Yankees would sign this guy for 10 years not go for 8 years which would have taken him to 40 years old. Oh well, not my money.
2007-11-14 16:02:24
48.   OldYanksFan
If ARod comes back, might this effect Andy's decision? Always nice to pitch on a winner.
2007-11-14 16:03:42
49.   ChrisS
45 Indeed, A-Rod once again got someone to outbid themselves. And somehow he's being reported as a nice guy that gave the Yankees a discount.
2007-11-14 16:04:08
50.   OldYanksFan
47 I guess ARod wants 800. Won't that be fun?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-11-14 16:04:41
51.   OldYanksFan
Time to talk BP help. Suggestions?
2007-11-14 16:07:00
52.   Shaun P
49 But how? See my 46 - and I just read in two different places (Daily News and ESPN.com) that the Yanks were likely to offer an extension that made A-Rod's total deal worth $289M.

$275M < $280M < $289M. Sure, when its numbers that big, its not a huge difference, but its still less. What am I missing here?

2007-11-14 16:08:13
53.   underdog
16 Stop making me cry, Shaun. It's bad enough to hear what the Marlins are asking - and hey, who can blame them, I guess...

But seriously, if the Dodgers don't end up with ARod, I do hope he ends up back in NY. I like the idea of him circumventing Borat, er, Borass, er Boras, too, though I don't completely trust it. Seems like a calculated PR move but maybe I'm just cynical.

2007-11-14 16:13:32
54.   Shaun P
53 My apologies, underdog - but that was a post that couldn't be passed up. =)

As a Yankees fan, I'd love to see the Yanks end up with the Dodgers' trove of prospects. (What fan of their team wouldn't?) But as a baseball fan, I think it'd be great if the Dodgers kept them all and played them all, and reaped the rewards. It would be a(nother) perfect lesson on how drafting and developing is far better than investing in free agents.

2007-11-14 16:16:56
55.   weeping for brunnhilde
30 ha ha haha ha!
2007-11-14 16:19:53
56.   monkeypants
48 My gut tells me that Pettitte's decision will not depend on A-Rod--or for pitching on a winner. He's already won a WS. At this point, it seems that purely personal factors are weighing more than on-field/career factors.

I am more interested in the Mo situation. If the Yanks were forced into rebuild/transition mode next season, then the Yankees might have been more willing to let him walk. But now, IF A-Rod is back, then suddenly Torregate is a distant memory. The big guns are back in place (A-Rod and Posada), and the team looks very much the competitor next season. In this context, Mo's 60 INN might make the difference between WC and WS (or at least that might be the perception). And if so, then does the team concede to his salary demands?

2007-11-14 16:25:45
57.   OldYanksFan
56 M&MM think the Cubs or someone else will offer Mo $50m. I can't see it. The guy is great, but also 38 and trending downhill. This contract is porential disaster for a team.

Question: Would another team offer Mo more then 3/$45
(and is Mo not getting a little greedy?)

2007-11-14 16:28:40
58.   monkeypants
57 I agree with you. But Mo could take less money because he was "insulted" by the Yankees. There is some PR pressure on them to over pay him even more than what they have already offered.
2007-11-14 16:30:13
59.   ny2ca2dc
57 etc, if Mo rejects that monster offer, you just go get Cordero and hardly notice the difference. The 45/3 is already absurd, though I'm happy it's been made because he's Mariano FREAKIN Rivera and I love him, but more than that and we're into the twilight zone.
2007-11-14 16:31:22
60.   Shaun P
57 Why would Mo, at 38, go to a new team, a new city, with people (and a manager) he doesn't know, over $5M? I just don't see it. That's not Mo.

And besides, I don't see any team offering Mo 3 years/$45M - or more.

56 Its not my money, so I say, why not pay Mo $50M/3 years? He made $1,431,125 total over 1996-1998; I think we can all agree he was vastly underpaid then. Why not overpay now?

2007-11-14 16:36:48
61.   monkeypants
60 "That's not Mo."

What does that mean? They are offering him the highest paid closer contract by something like 50% and he's being fussy. I'm not so sure Mo is the saint we think he is. As for new city, new manager, etc...paging Dr. Torre...

"Why not overpay now?"

Nope, sorry, it does't work that way. He's been the highest paid closer in the league since 2001. One could even argue he's been overpaid in those years, given the marginal value of the closer role and the team's failure in the post season (where Mo's legend has really been made).

Look, on a certain level I could care less how much they pay player. But if we are having a discussion that is rooted in baseball rationale--value for dollar, value for performance, etc--I can't even justify 3 @ 45, let alone 3 @ 50.

2007-11-14 16:37:11
62.   RIYank
I think A-Rod should pay Mo.
2007-11-14 16:39:16
63.   ChrisS
52 Because no team was likely to give him what the Yankees were even contemplating offering him in the first place. I think, as OYF posted, it's fairly obvious that no one will go more than 8 years, and possibly no one will breach $20 mill for that many years. He's really only got three teams, maybe four, that can even pay more than $22-23 a year: Boston, LAA, NYY, and the Dodgers. No other teams have the available capital, which would amount to 1/5 of their payroll. to lock up in one player. I don't think that it's really the yearly salary that's tough to offer. I think it's the number of years that he wants. I'm sure LAA would jump to offer a $27mill/yr six year deal.

I know, that overall based on reports, the offer is still less. But it's still the highest AAS for any player and far and away the highest AAS for a non-Yankee. Is A-Rod really worth that much? Judging by the salaries handed out since the first massive contract, no player has been worth close to it. People can say that to the Yankees, he is worth it I guess. But I'm not buying it as a noble departure from being greedy and holding the team over the coals.

Anyway, whatever they pay, it closes a huge hole and makes the Yankees a dangerous offensive team, with potentially great young pitching. It's not like I'm fuming mad, and I'm not going to stop being a fan or anything, but this is all kinda ... icky.

2007-11-14 16:49:05
64.   OldYanksFan
60 At 3/$45, he is grossly overpaid. That number is because he's Mo Rivera. He's 38. Asking for more, to me, is very un-cool. The Yanks could call his bluff. Does he really want to finish his career in another uniform?

Hell, even ARod is 'taking less' to be a Yankee. Jetes is making $21m/yr. Maybe he should chip in.

Tell Matsui he will get 300 ABs as a DH only. Then offer to send him to be with Papa Torre in LA. Sign Bonds for 1 year... just to hear the Sox piss and moan all year long, and read Gammon's dribble. They we drink heavily during all games and party like hell.

2007-11-14 16:50:11
65.   Mattpat11
51 Dump Worthless.
2007-11-14 17:07:27
66.   Shaun P
61 64 Maybe I'm crazy, but with Mariano Rivera, my objectivity goes out the window. I cannot rationalize not having Mo on the Yanks because they wouldn't pay him what he wanted. I say screw the valuations* and all that, pay him what he asks and be done.

*though there is a lot of truth to what you both say

64 I think you keep Matsui even if you sign Bonds. Never hurts to have insurance in case Damon/Giambi/Bonds/Melky get hurt. Besides, IIRC, Matsui tends to hit lefties reasonably well, whereas Damon and Giambi don't.

63 All true, but I guess it doesn't bother me too much. Especially with Giambi, Pavano, and Moose all coming off the books after 2008, and many of the kid pitchers not due for huge raises until after 2010.

2007-11-14 17:07:29
67.   yankster
52 and to further make the point that 275 is less money, consider that the offer has pushed a lot of the pay into the future - with clear benefits to the Yankees in luxury cap, and in present value reductions.

The value of the original $289 mil was heavily front loaded (and partially paid by Texas). At say inflation of 3% (anything over being Arod's problem - the contract is a Yankee inflation hedge - isn't that nice), 30 million today is worth 40.32 million in ten years.

Instead, the value of the current offer as reported is heavily back-loaded. The $30 million salary to be paid in 2017 is worth only 22.25 in current dollars. So it's possible that in his last year he'll be getting close to what Jeter gets now in present value.

At the same time the total value of the contract might look like a big number like 275, but it will be worth (and cost the yankees) a lot less than 27 million a year.

2007-11-14 17:08:39
68.   OldYanksFan
Enjoy! http://tinyurl.com/2y2sg8
2007-11-14 17:11:54
69.   OldYanksFan
Let's been honest...
We're all really glad to have ARod back, yes?
Time to start printing WS tickets.
Wonder what the Sox will do. MCab? They will need to make a big move.
2007-11-14 17:12:32
70.   JL25and3
I still think it's time to stop making assumptions about his motives. After all, last I heard we knew - knew! - that he just wanted out of NY.

How about this: he declared free agency to see what his options were. He decided NY was his best option, for whatever combination of reasons. Or is that just not Machiavellian enough?

I do think that this is probably a done deal, that he wouldn't have made the announcement - and the Yankees wouldn't have confirmed it - unless the deal was pretty well set.

However, I don't think they can simply cut Boras out of the negotiations. "...no Club may negotiate or attempt to negotiate and individual salary and/or Special Covenants to be included in a Uniform Player's Contract with any Player Agent(s) other than such Player Agent(s)." I think direct negotiations with Rodriguez would constitute him serving as his own agent, and would be a violation of the CBA.

But perhaps he won't sue as long as he gets his cut.

2007-11-14 17:16:37
71.   Simone
69 Why on earth do the Red Sox need to make a big move? They are still a better team that the Yankees right now at this moment.

Also, how does re-sign Alex mean that the Yankees are going to the World Series? Does he pitch?

2007-11-14 17:17:09
72.   ChrisS
68 thanks for the video
2007-11-14 17:20:19
73.   yankster
68 big thanks for video. I got no tv.
2007-11-14 17:21:24
74.   monkeypants
70 River Ave. Blues reads that section of the CBA differently, for what it's worth. I assume that the Yankees are savvy enough not to blatantly violate the CBA, and even if there is a marginal case here, Boras will would likely accept his current slice of pie rather than try to torpedo the deal.
2007-11-14 17:27:09
75.   Marcus
69 70 Bingo. I won't hide it: I'm pretty happy right now. Opting out was ridiculously stupid, but if he signs, while in the process neutering Boras for at least the moment, I think he's made up for it. In fact, it almost makes me smile now because of how much it pissed of Peter Gammons. This is just an emotional first impression, but it's also great from a baseball perspective. As we could all see from Cliff's analysis and others, the third base options were not the greatest.

There will be a long line of prognosticators (Peter Abraham, for one) that should be lining up at the crow trough in the coming days.

2007-11-14 17:32:22
76.   RIYank
70 Andruw did a similar deal to get his extension -- Boras didn't participate.
There's no way Boras could sue. He has no standing, there are no damages.
Cashman isn't stupid, you know.
2007-11-14 17:33:14
77.   OldYanksFan
71 No.... But Wang, Phil, Joba and IPK do. Plus, now 3rd base is moot (or mute), 1B doesn't quite seem so important. While I believe Andy is done, Cashman can now concentrate on 1 SP and 2 BP guys.

Mo is coming back, so this is now the 2007 post July team minus Pettitte.

In Cash I trust.

74 One of Boras's employees was in one the chat.

2007-11-14 17:35:26
78.   monkeypants
77 "Plus, now 3rd base is moot (or mute)..."

: )

2007-11-14 17:35:30
79.   yankster
71 agreed. If we are lucky, we just got back to where we were last year.

Now, if Giambi can come back and have a full season at the level of his worst previous full season during the Yankees years (all of which are post steroid) that would be huge. (.939 OPS)

I have always disliked Alex, and I always will, even though it's hard to dislike one of the greatest players in the history of the game (especially when he plays on your team).

2007-11-14 17:38:10
80.   monkeypants
77 Regarding 1B--I like Cashman's recent statements that they will try to wring some starts out of Giambi. Without turning this into a Torre-bashing post, I was never a fan of Giambi off the bench, with Damon at DH and Minky (or whoever) at 1B. If A-Rod is back at 3B, and if they can get 100 games out of Giambi at 1B (and he's reasonably productive), then look out!
2007-11-14 17:41:33
81.   Simone
77 Which means that the Yankees are actually worse than last season in the starting rotation. The Yankees right now are worse than they were last season which isn't good by any stretch of the imagination. It is the Yankees who needs to make the next big move in the pitching department, not the Red Sox which is still the better team with the stellar starting rotation.
2007-11-14 17:41:53
82.   monkeypants
79 "If we are lucky, we just got back to where we were last year."

That's just not true. As OYF points out 77 , the roster post-July last year was impressive--far better than the mess at the beginning of the season. The rotation almost has to be improved with healthy Hughes and a full season of Joba replacing Igawa, et al.

2007-11-14 17:43:00
83.   Dimelo
"Prior to entering into serious negotiations with other clubs, I wanted the opportunity to share my thoughts directly with Yankees' ownership. We know there are other opportunities for us, but Cynthia and I have a foundation with the club that has brought us comfort, stability and happiness. "

Translation: I called every other team, including KC. No other team in MLB would even speak to me. I hate New York, but I have to play somewhere if I'm going to accumulate my personal stats. And hey, they are still willing to pay me twice as much as anyone else. My personal sperm bank, Cynthia, is excited that her parasite family will get another house from me when I sign this new deal.
2007-11-14 17:43:40
84.   Jeb
76 RI, seems to me that under a lot of State laws, Boras might have standing to bring a claim for intentional interference with business relations against the Yanks, but only IF Arod and the Yanks tried to cut him out of his fee (or simply breach of contract against Arod). I don't know if NY law allows that. Of course, from a practical standpoint, such a lawsuit would be suicide to his career.

Sorry Gang, I don't know who's for Arod to return, but I still don't want him back. I say take it on the chin and build young and heavy on the pitching. I have moved from being an Arod defender (before game 4 of the WS) to being in the boat where people boo the shit out of him.

When he opted out, I just thought about all the Arod, Inc., stuff -- having Cal teach him to shake hands, wearing the suit late at night in his hotel room, the stupid quotes, the stripper, etc., etc. -- and part of me really though, "Phew, thank God that drama's fucking over."

2007-11-14 17:44:31
85.   monkeypants
81 I'm not sure I agree entirely. The Yankees are down Pettitte, but are adding IP, Hughes (full season, w/o injury) and Chamberlain. By signing A-Rod, the Yankees HAVE made their big move with rotation, by keeping all of their young starters rather than trading one for or more for Cabrera.
2007-11-14 17:46:13
86.   Knuckles
My buddy's in Tampa and managed to get a quick snapshot of the scene down there...
http://tinyurl.com/yweqnp
2007-11-14 17:47:25
87.   Sarasota
......who would have thought that on 11/14/07 the NY Yankees were on the verge to spend nearly $400m on 3 players and not one of them a #1, or #2 starting pitcher that they most desperately need in order to stay within reach of the Sox. This is truely a special day indeed. One for the record books. Beer here (gulp), please !!!!
2007-11-14 17:48:10
88.   RIYank
84 Oh, there's no way they try to cut him out of his fee, of course. I'm sure A-Rod isn't even considering that possibility.

I agree with monkeypants. If we "just got back to where we were" on July 4th, well, that's an extremely good spot to be in. The Yankees outplayed everybody else by a mile starting then.

The interesting question will be this: does the climb of our younger players outpace the decline of our older players?

2007-11-14 17:48:25
89.   monkeypants
84 "Sorry Gang, I don't know who's for Arod to return, but I still don't want him back. I say take it on the chin and build young and heavy on the pitching."

False dichotomy. By resigning A-Rod, they actually increase the chances that they build a young (and cheap) pitching staff, since they won't be compelled to trade those assets for position players.

2007-11-14 17:49:49
90.   RIYank
There aren't any pitchers to spend money on. That will be next year.
2007-11-14 17:52:41
91.   RIYank
89 We seem to be on the same page.
2007-11-14 17:53:10
92.   Jeb
88 then I agree with you. There wouldn't be an IIBR claim because there wouldn't be damages...Obviously he couldn't sue Arod for IIBR because he an Arod are parties to the contract that the Yanks are interfering with.
2007-11-14 17:54:38
93.   OldYanksFan
71 Common... be happy. Watch the video. Next year will be fun again.
2007-11-14 17:55:10
94.   C2Coke
The way Arod opted out was ugly but the fact that he was on the way out wasn't. Now, it's yet again another ball game.

I don't like this off season not because what's being done but really, the way it's getting done.

2007-11-14 17:56:18
95.   Jeb
89 true enough, but they might trade Cano + Cabrera + Hughes or Kennedy + some other minor leaguer in order to get Johan. Of course, Arod + Johan would keep the payroll huge. I don't want either of them.

And, before you tell me that getting Johan is a non-sequitur if they get Arod (because what do Arod and Johan have to do with one another), I agree with you BUT there's still an overall payroll issue that the Yanks are going OVER $200 million and will continue to buy players that they don't need.

2007-11-14 18:04:00
96.   monkeypants
95 I don't follow you here. If they go after Santana with such an offer, it would be bad move, but that is independent of A-Rod. Moreover, with Pettitte leaving (so far), there was already pressure on the team to go after a 'number 1' pitcher. In fact, I think that A-Rod's return, since it will tie up payroll, will actually lessen the chance that they overpay for Santana (and thus increases the chance they stand pat with the young arms).
2007-11-14 18:05:29
97.   RIYank
Has this been posted, from the Times?
An unnamed 'friend' of A-Rod's:

"It's a relief for Alex to know that the Yankees still want him, and now that he knows that, he's going to work something out. Whatever they have to do to work it out, they're going to do it. He was willing to eat crow, and he did."

2007-11-14 18:14:10
98.   Sonya Hennys Tutu
96 Have to disagree - this is exactly what our money is for. We get have our cake (high priced free agents) and eat it too (develop youngsters from within).

By not having to deal anoyone for a 3B plate-threat like MCab, we've done nothing but committed $ (assuming the arod deal gets done of course). That leaves us in excellent position both in terms of our youngsters - all in tact, and/or to make a move on Santana.

Put it this way - what's more likely to have happened: MCab and Santana to the Yanks via trades (or more accurately sign and trades) OR ARod and Santana to the Yanks via a fat contract for ARod and a sign and trade for Santana?

I don't think it can rationally be argued - given everything about the Yanks penchant for spending and Cashman's recent style - that MCab and Santana are more likely than AROd and Santana.

On another note - do we know for sure the sequence of events? Was it in the NY Daily News first, THEN ARod's site in reaction? And even then, might ARod's side have been the source of the leak? I can paint scenarios where both sides gain by having this leaked before the deal is done...

2007-11-14 18:16:34
99.   ms october
Seems the only way Boras could sue Arod is if Arod doesn't give him his comission, but As RIYanks says 88 I doubt it - though that would add a whole other layer of drama.

But for some precedent if Arod did somewhow get rid of Boras - From the New Yorker piece on Boras - Boras and Sheff's dispute:
"Sheffield and Boras are now entangled in a union grievance over the commission on a contract that Sheffield believes Boras had nothing to do with."

2007-11-14 18:19:10
100.   monkeypants
98 "That leaves us in excellent position both in terms of our youngsters - all in tact, and/or to make a move on Santana."

It all depends on what the maximum payroll is. Despite the reputation for bottomless pockets, even the Yankees have a limit to what they can spend. And after years of payroll increae, Cashman levelled off spending the last couple of years, and even cut payroll a bit. My gut insticnt tells me that A-Rod + Posada + (maybe Mo) = no more major FA/payroll acquisitions.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-11-14 18:37:45
101.   RIYank
99 If in fact CBA rules were broken, the only legal problem would be that MLB could in principle void a contract, I guess. But again, this seems incredibly unlikely.

100 No more major FA acquisitions... this year? I can agree with that. They'll make the big splash(es) next year when a bunch of stud pitchers hit the FA market.

2007-11-14 18:46:15
102.   vockins
This whole thing is bonkers. I don't know my ass from my elbow anymore.
2007-11-14 18:55:20
103.   mehmattski
84 Yeah, it's going to be tough with the best player in baseball back on our favorite team. I hate when that happens. We'll continue to have one of the best offensive teams in the league, but our DRAMA+ figure will be too low to compete.

The Yankees win games on the field, not off of it.

OldYanksFan is right though, 51 . Not having to deal any of the youngsters is good news, but without Andy Pettitte, the Yankees will be needing a lot of bullpen innings. That's where the focus should be the remainder of the post-season. I think we have a good middle of the bullpen with youngsters like Edwar and The Dorf, and with Mo back (please, Mo, drop the shenanigans and come back), the weakness is in the setup man.

Scott Linebrink and Kerry Wood seem to me to be the top names, although Linebrink is a Class A free agent.

2007-11-14 18:58:17
104.   OldYanksFan
Hire new manager: done
Convince Andy Pettitte to return: pending
Re-sign Jorge Posada: done
Re-sign Mariano Rivera: In the bag!
Find an upgrade over Wilson Betemit at third base: Done! And with Style! And we keep ALL the kids!
Assemble a bullpen: Coming soon
Fill out the bench: Andy, Shelly, Molina, Betemit, Sardinha? Gardner? PTBNL?
* Replace Pettitte: Coming soon

First Post of Today:
"I've heard mention of Mike Lamb as a platoon partner as well. Any thoughts?"

WHAT A FREAKIN' DAY! HA!

2007-11-14 19:03:55
105.   mehmattski
Wait a minute, now the reports out of the Star-Ledger indicate that the deal is $280M/10yrs and includes incentives that push the deal well over $300M.

How is that eating the $21M he screwed the Yankees out of by opting out? The original extension would have worked out to about $240M/8yrs. Minus the $21M from Texas and prorated to 10 years, the deal should be no more than $273M.

If the deal exceeds $280M, I am no longer completely thrilled at this development.

2007-11-14 19:08:03
106.   ms october
105 Heyman on SI.com is reporting that figure too.
I have seen the $275 everywhere else so far though.

And if anyone is interested and believes this story, we have Modell's to thank for the reunion.
http://tinyurl.com/369jkx

2007-11-14 19:10:06
107.   mehmattski
106 Gotta go to Mo's

(it's a sign, meaning that Rivera will be back too)

2007-11-14 19:12:39
108.   51cq24
105 your attitude changes over $7 million? what are the incentives?
2007-11-14 19:12:59
109.   ms october
107 Haha - sounds good
2007-11-14 19:20:28
110.   mehmattski
105 Well it's the principle that is supposed to make us believe that the Yankees and A-Rod are doing a good thing and that Boras is still the root of all evil. The point was supposed to be that A-Rod would admit that he was wrong by dimming his deal by $21M, the total from Texas that the Yankees lost when he opted out. But if the final deal with A-Rod is more than the original offer by the Yankees, who's actually won here? I believe it's A-Rod, and Boras.

Meanwhile, if the Yankees sign A-Rod to a contract potentially worth over $300M, they, like Tom Hicks seven years ago, are only bidding against themselves. Clearly, there weren't any teams willing to offer that kind money, much less the $350M Boras wanted. There is no kind of hometown discount going on here if A-Rod doesn't eat the $21M.

Make no mistake, I am thrilled to have A-Rod as a Yankee for the next decade. Even when he's a DH and slugging homer #800, he will be a bargain in 2016, when players like Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder and guys who we don't even know yet are making $35M a year. But on principles, anyone painting this as a win for the Yankees over evil Boras are sorely mistaken if he signs for more than $27.5M a year.

2007-11-14 19:20:38
111.   RIYank
So.
Eric Gagne?
2007-11-14 19:23:11
112.   RIYank
110 Wait, so, you know that there were no other teams willing to offer that kind of money. But Cashman didn't realize it? Or, he did, but decided to kick in an extra $25M anyway?
2007-11-14 19:23:29
113.   tommyl
111 Depends, is he a Type A?
2007-11-14 19:29:07
114.   RIYank
113 No, Type B.
Unless you meant his personality.
2007-11-14 19:30:21
115.   51cq24
i wouldn't go near gagne.
2007-11-14 19:30:50
116.   RIYank
Linebrink and Cordero are the only Type A relievers, besides Mo.
2007-11-14 19:41:31
117.   mehmattski
http://baseball.bornbybits.com/php/PITCHfx_tool.html

From THT, web-based PITCHf/x data. Damn. I wanted to be productive over the next month or so. Oh well. I'll be over in the corner, charting Jesus Colome's fastball and the foul tips given up by Mike Bacsik.

2007-11-14 19:44:24
118.   OldYanksFan
ARods (last) contract called for a raise to $32m for 2009 and 2010, or he could opt out. So is that 3 years at $81 or 3 years at $91? If he was to finish this contract, would the Yankees allow him to opt out after 2008 for $10m?

Cashman knows what he is doing.
There are a lot of expensive seats to fill in the new stadium. ARod will hopefully pay for himself.

As a number of GMs have said, it's not big contracts for great players that hurt, but big contracts for mediocre players. If we lived through Pavano and that ilk, my guess is we will survive and even thrive on ARod.

Steinbrenner bought the Yankees for $12m.
Its not time to cry broke yet.

2007-11-14 19:49:06
119.   wsporter
Now Graziano has us shopping for Lowell to play 1st. Rather than that I think now it actually makes sense for us to be involved in the Miggy Cab sweepstakes. Obtaining him would truly make for a frightening nine and if nothing else a legitimate offer from us would continue to escalate the price a competitor of ours would have to pay to get him.

Can't say I'm sad the guy is back. I'm willing to forgive and forget. Hell, I'm not really sure what it is I have to forgive him for anyway.

2007-11-14 19:51:37
120.   Mattpat11
119 I wouldn't forget. We made the mistake of forgetting what kind of person Roger Clemens was once.
2007-11-14 20:03:06
121.   Sonya Hennys Tutu
100 I'm not so sure there is a "maximum" payroll, at least not one that has a bearing on what we're talking about here - which is a sign and trade for Santana at a time when we have lots of $ coming off payroll in the next 2 years - and deadweight $ at that.

I also like what 119 mentioned about staying in the MCab derby anyway - we either get him and will score 1000 runs/year for the next 10 years, or at the very least will drive up the price paid by whomever lands him.

I still would rather actually do a deal for Santana than MCab (assuming we get arod) but still - this is intriguing.

2007-11-14 20:06:30
122.   Sonya Hennys Tutu
BTW I'm afraid of the headlines I'm going to wake up to tomorrow! This roller coaster is enough to make me swear off theme parks for life...
2007-11-14 20:12:40
123.   OldYanksFan
ARod, Jeter, Cano, Melky, Posada, Mo, Phil, Joba, IPK, Wang

That's 10 players, 6 young'uns, that should be with us for the next 3 years. This is a really balanced nucleus. By then, Maybe Miranda, Tabata and Montero and a bunch of other possible kids. Next year, another $31m+ comes off the payroll.

I'm excited. Few Teams get to hold onto favorite players the way we do. There are 3 HOFers in that group, maybe more. We still have more to do, but considering Torregate and all that has gone down, we're in really good shape.

2007-11-14 20:16:28
124.   Chyll Will
Wait, I'm lost... is he really back or not?
2007-11-14 20:19:23
125.   Chyll Will
I'm surprised no one mentioned Allen Barra's article in the Village Voice last week. He basically predicted this would happen exactly the way it did, if I recall. Then again, I'm not surprised if no one saw it as the Village Voice is crap without Emma writing for them anymore...
2007-11-14 20:27:30
126.   OldYanksFan
124 Not yet... but it looks VERY strong that he will sign... maybe in the next few days.
2007-11-14 20:29:58
127.   underdog
Belated Ha! I mean, Yes! I agree, for 54 Couldn't agree more, Shaun. (Obviously.)

So 104 implies ARod signed - is that official, or just an assumption based on the buzz today?

2007-11-14 20:33:56
128.   Chyll Will
I reserve further comment until I get some solid facts. Wake me up when he signs with someone so I can watch the world start spinning again...
2007-11-14 20:35:13
129.   cult of basebaal
119 there's a link up on BBTF to a small article on a boston area TV station's website saying that "supposedly" Lowell had received offers from 4 teams already (yanks, braves, angels and i forget the other) each for 4 years and worth btw 55 and 60 mil.

mike lowell for 4x15?!?!?

jesus christ, no!

if true, it's like the FO got high off the fumes of the a-rod development and got the free-agent munchies

2007-11-14 20:38:37
130.   Chyll Will
127 Btw, I was walking down the street today and I said to myself, "I wonder when we'll see underdog again"... please don't ask me why because I haven't the faintest idea, but thanks for proving I have ESP >;)
2007-11-14 21:00:33
131.   underdog
Assuming you mean me, and not the rhymin' canine of cartoon fame, then, yep, you're prescient! :-) I haven't gone too far away, just a few doors down at my usual watering hole, Dodger Thoughts. (Oh, and also a trip to Florida for a death in the family. Feh. Bleh. Nice to talk about baseball again, and other pleasantly meaningless things.) But...cheers!
2007-11-14 22:36:43
132.   DadinIowa
IMHO, signing Wood, and perhaps Marte (is he a free agent too?) is all we need to do with the BP except audition our kids on the farm. I wouldn't trade our starting pitching (even with perhaps 3 rookies) with any other team.

We are going to Rock in 08!

2007-11-14 23:08:00
133.   weeping for brunnhilde
Wait a minute, wtf? You guys are talking like Alex is signed...have I missed something?
2007-11-14 23:09:07
134.   weeping for brunnhilde
Ah, I see I'm not the only one...

Well, as I say, wake me when the ink's dry.

2007-11-15 01:56:07
135.   Shaun P
119 MFD, I like being in on Cabrera (as long as it doesn't cost Joba/Hughes/Cano) - but if the Yanks lose out, or can't make that deal, why not just sign Bonds?

I hate the idea of losing the 1st round pick, but that's the only thing that gives me pause.

2007-11-15 04:59:06
136.   wsporter
135 MFD, I don't think there's any doubt Bonds is still a great hitter and would be a devastating DH. He carries a substantial 'ICK' factor however and I really don't want to listen to Sully's demented hoards rag us for signing him. I still can't make my mind up on that one. Talk about " ... to be or not to be..."

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