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25-man Roster:

Infielders:
J. Giambi BR BP E MLB
R. Cano BR BP E MLB
D. Jeter BR BP E MLB
A. Rodriguez BR BP E MLB
W. Betemit BR BP E MLB mi
C. Ransom BR BP E MLB mi

Outfielders:
B. Abreu BR BP E MLB
J. Damon BR BP E MLB
X. Nady BR BP E MLB
H. Matsui BR BP E MLB mi
B. Gardner BR E MLB mi
M. Cabrera BR BP E MLB mi

Catchers:
I. Rodriguez BR BP E MLB
J. Molina BR BP E MLB
C. Moeller BR BP E MLB mi

Starting Pitchers:
M. Mussina BR BP BC E
A. Pettitte (L) BR BP BC E
S. Ponson BR BP BC E mi
D. Rasner BR BP BC E mi
C. Pavano BR BP BC E mi

Relief Pitchers:
M. Rivera BR BP BC E
J. Chamberlain BR BP BC E
D. Marte (L) BR BP BC E
J. Veras BR BP BC E mi
E. Ramirez BR BP BC E mi
B. Bruney BR BP BC E mi
D. Giese BR BP BC E mi
C. Britton BR BP BC E mi
A. Aceves BR E mi
P. Coke (L) BR BC E mi

15-day DL:
C. Wang BR BP BC E
60-day DL:
J. Posada BR BP E MLB
J. Albaladejo BR BP BC E mi
A. Brackman BC
H. Sanchez BC mi

Coaches:
J. Girardi (Mgr) BR BP BC
R. Thomson (Bench) BC
Kevin Long (Hit) BR
D. Eiland (Pitch) BR BP BC
B. Meacham (3B) BR BP BC
T. Peña (1B) BR BP BC
M. Harkey (Pen) BR BP BC

40-man Roster:
AAA
S. Duncan BR BP E MLB mi
J. Miranda BR BC mi
J. Christian BR BP E MLB mi
P. Hughes BR BP BC E mi
I. Kennedy BR BP BC E mi
C. Wright (L) BR BP BC E mi
D. Robertson BR BC E mi
S. Patterson BR BC mi
AA
F. Cervelli BR BC mi
J. Marquez BR BC mi DL

Designated for Assignment:
B. Traber (L) BR BP BC E mi

Select Minor Leaguers:

AAA Scranton Wilkes-Barre Yankees:
B. Castro BR mi DL
C. Basak BR BP BC E MLB mi
E. Duncan BC mi
N. Green BR mi
B. Broussard BR mi
M. Carson BC mi
C. Stewart BR BP E MLB mi
J. Brown BC mi DL
K. Igawa (L) BR BP BC E JB mi
M. Melancon BC mi
J.B. Cox BC mi
S. Strickland BR BC mi
S. Jackson BC mi
E. Milton BR BC mi DL
V. Zambrano BR BC mi DL

AA Trenton Thunder:
K. Russo BR mi
R. Peña BC mi DL
C. Malec BC mi
M. Vechionacci BC mi DL
A. Jackson BC mi
C. Curtis BC mi
E. Gonzalez BR mi
P.J. Pilittere BC mi
J. Jones BC mi
G. Kontos BC mi
J. Nuñez BC mi
B. Smith BC mi DL
A. Claggett BC mi
O. Perez BR BC mi
M. Gardner BC mi
K. Whelan BC mi
W. Arias (L) BC mi

A Tampa Yankees:
E. Nuñez BC mi
C.J. Henry BC mi DL
T. Battle BC mi
K. Anson BC mi
J. Gil BC mi
A. Horne BC mi DL
Z. McAllister BC mi
W. De La Rosa (L) BC mi
C. Garcia BC mi

Low-A Charleston RiverDogs:
J. Snyder BC mi
M. Cusick BC mi
B. Suttle BC mi
A. Romine BC mi
J. Montero BC mi
D. Betances BC mi
J. Heredia BC mi
J. Ortiz BC mi
C. Heyer BC mi

Low-A Staten Island Yankees:
D. Adams mi
P. Venditte mi

Rookie Gulf Coast Yankees:
C. Joseph mi
C. Smith mi
K. Higashioka mi

Key:
BR = Baseball-Reference
BP = Baseball Prospectus
BC = Baseball Cube (past mL stats)
mi = MiLB.com (current mL stats)
E = ESPN (current splits, game logs)
MLB = MLB.com hit charts
JB = Japanese Baseball.com

The Recently Departed

2008 Yankees:
R. Sexson BR BP E MLB
M. Ensberg BR BP E MLB
A. Gonzalez BR BP E MLB mi
K. Farnsworth BR BP BC E
L. Hawkins BR BP BC E

Nady/Marte Trade:
J. Tabata BC mi
R. Ohlendorf BR BP BC E
D. McCutchen BC mi
J. Karstens BR BP BC E mi

2008 Campers/mLers:
C. Woodward BR BP BC E MLB PHI mL
J. Lane BR mi BOS mL
G. Porter BC mi WAS mL
J.D. Closser BR mi SD mL
S. Henn (L) BR BP BC E mi SD
H. Phillips (L) BR BC mi TB mL
S. White BR BC mi

2007 Yankees:
J. Torre (Mgr) BR BP BC LAD
D. Mientkiewicz BR BP BC E MLB PIT mL
A. Phillips BR BP BC E MLB mi CIN mL
J. Phelps BR BP BC E MLB STL mL
M. Cairo BR BP BC E MLB SEA
K. Thompson BR BP BC E MLB mi PIT
B. Sardinha BC mi SEA mL
W. Nieves BR BP BC E MLB WAS mL
R. Clemens BR BP BC E mi
T. Clippard BR BP BC E mi WAS
L. Vizcaino BR BP BC E COL $7.5m/2yrs
M. DeSalvo BR BP BC E mi ATL mL
M. Myers (L) BR BP BC E LAD mL
R. Villone (L) BR BP BC E mi STL mL
S. Proctor BR BP BC E LAD
J. Brower BR BP BC E mi CIN mL
C. Bean BR BP BC E mi ATL mL

2007 Campers and mLers:
E. Durazo BR BP BC E MLB mi
A. Cannizaro BR BP BC E MLB mi TB mL
A. Chavez BR BP BC E MLB mi LAD mL
K. Reese BR BP BC E MLB mi
R. Chavez BR BP BC E MLB mi PIT mL
O. Santos BC mi BAL mL
T. Pratt BR BP BC E MLB
T.J. Beam BR BP BC E mi PIT mL
B. Kozlowski (L) BR BP BC E mi Japan

Molina Trade:
J. Kennard BC mi

Abreu Trade
M. Smith (L) BR BP BC E mi PHI
C. Monasterios BC mi PHI
J. Sanchez mi PHI

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Yankee Panky # 27: The Silly Season Begins
2007-10-10 06:28
by Will Weiss

Coverage of the Yankees' aftermath begins in the second week of October for the third straight year. Had the Yankees received better starting pitching from their ace and gotten timely hits in more than one game, we might be talking about the insane hype of Yankees-Red Sox IV instead of counting down the days until spring training.

So now, we ask a ton of questions and simultaneously search for answers to what went wrong, and what's next. Aside from Joe Torre, the A-Rod question looms largest among all the potential players who could be gone in 60 days or so. The Post's Mike Vaccaro notes A-Rod's reluctance to answer that question immediately following Game 4.

Perhaps our friends at Replacement Level summed it up best:

"I'm not sure what I feel right now. I'm disappointed obviously, and there will be a tendency to find scapegoats and blame people on the Yankees, but the Yankees lost to a pretty damn good team in Cleveland. Sometimes you get outplayed by a team that is better. I'll be pulling for them in the ALCS."

Now we enter the silly season of coverage. Where "sources close to the situation" determine everything, and a greater emphasis is placed on getting the story out as opposed to getting it right. In such a competitive atmosphere to scoop everyone, this is understandable — the rumors sell papers — but it blurs the line of truth even further. Just yesterday SI.com's Jon Heyman told the talk-radio audience that Tony LaRussa is the leading candidate to replace Joe Torre. If you're Bill Madden, you're absolutely positive that Steinbrenner wants LaRussa and have anonymous sources to back it up. If you're George King of the New York Post, your sources say LaRussa isn't interested and that Don Mattingly's the favorite to replace Torre, followed by Joe Girardi. This is, of course, provided that Torre either opts not to return or is ordered not to.

The bitterness and anger that followed last year's early exit was gone this year. By no means was it a love fest, but in general I thought the papers and the broadcast media did a good job of capturing that emotion and the closeness that this Yankee team appeared to have compared to others that have faltered in recent years. The way the stories were presented — especially from those who ventured away from the podium in the press cafeteria — I got the sense that the players viewed this loss as a greater disappointment than the last two, that there was an even greater sense of finality. (More on this below)

My question in all this: Based on their playoff performances the last four years or so, should the YES Network change its slogan to "The Home of Teams That Lose In The First Round"? Through six Yankees seasons and five Nets seasons, both teams have reached the playoffs each year, and reached their respective championship rounds only once.

* * * * *

Some other notes:

• I didn't hear this until I stumbled upon it on a blog called Awful Announcing, but Suzyn Waldman actually cried on the air during the Game 4 postgame show on WCBS 880-AM. The description of the audio led me to believe that Waldman was sobbing on the air. In actuality Waldman, while gauging the situation in the locker room, took a few moments to collect her emotions while projecting the changes that are sure to come. Following a brief comparison of the mood in the locker room being akin to the mood on the flight back to New York from Seattle after the Game 5 loss in 1995, Waldman welled up as she discussed the potential changes in the coming months. The spill of emotions made John Sterling uncomfortable — there's an obvious change in his vocal tone that seemed to say, "Holy crap, how do I handle this?". The whole exchange straddled the lines of professionalism. But it made for captivating radio.

She told the NY Times today: "That's what I felt. I am who I am. I'm emotional. A lot of people like it, a lot of people don't. I didn't do it in a game, and I recovered."

 

A debate ensued regarding the circumstances in which it's OK for an announcer to cry. It was about 70/30 in favor of "never." The consensus was that when a player dies, all bets are off. (This exact scenario happened a year ago tomorrow, with Cory Lidle's plane crash. The Yankees were already out of the playoffs by this time, so there wasn't a chance to gauge how Waldman or any other Yankee broadcaster handled the situation in a game or reporting situation.) Three game-related examples cited were Joe Buck crying following the sudden death of Darryl Kile, and after his father, the Hall of Fame announcer Jack Buck, died; and producers waiting until after the game to tell Vin Scully that Don Drysdale had died. Given the 35-year friendship of the two men and that Scully was there for Drysdale's entire playing and broadcasting career, a catharsis would have been understood. Scanning through the comments, I was fine with many of the responses until a few members of their intelligentsia started generalizing Yankee fans as "deluded" and went into full-on hate mode.

Listening to the Waldman exchange again, I've concluded that her histrionics in the booth when Clemens announced his return to the Yankees were much more of a credibility killer.

• Anyone else see or read our fellow Banterer Emma Span blogging for Newsday? Great stuff, and kudos to Newsday for adding her work to their solid coverage.

TBS'S GAME COVERAGE
• Save for Richard Sandomir's take in yesterday's NY Times, where Chip Caray was rightfully skewered for making critical fact errors and not called to task, the reviews for the TBS in-game team were pretty good, while the studio group left a little to be desired. For the purposes of this entry, the TBS studio team of Ernie Johnson, Frank Thomas and Cal Ripken is irrelevant; they add little to the broadcast when called upon. The team of Chip Caray, Bob Brenly and Tony Gwynn has been the best of the four teams calling the Division Series, largely because of Brenly and Gwynn. Their analysis has been fair, and they've raised points outside the obvious. I could watch Gwynn break down slo-mo replays of hitting for hours. And Brenly, with experience as a major league catcher, broadcaster, and World Series-winning manager, has a sense of when he's said enough. Rarely have I heard him repeat an issue to the point of sounding the dead horse alert. Caray, on the other hand, has wavered from "OK" to "mute-worthy" as a play-by-play man. Where he's succeeded in setting up Brenly and Gwynn and engaging discussion between the analysts, he's gone overboard in creating drama when it's not warranted. On three different occasions in the first three innings of Game 3 — each time when the leadoff man reached base — he said, "Here come the Yankees." Twice, the next batter grounded into a double play. In the third inning, after the Yankees did get on the scoreboard, Jeter bounced into an inning-ending double play. Also, in Game 3 — maybe it was because Roger Clemens was on the mound? — every hard-hit ball was a "rocket." In Game 4, before his first at-bat, Caray called Matsui "red-hot." Getting on base four times in one game — two by walk — after going 0-for the series does not merit being "red-hot." … I've seen Caray do some solid booth work calling playoff games for FOX in the past. I think he's better than what he showed. Maybe he isn't.

• One other thing: can someone please educate the PBP guys how to read Web addresses? All week, Caray promoted the TBS Hot Corner at mlb.com "backslash" hotcorner. Production assistants, anyone in the truck, it's your responsibility to bring corrections to your producers' attention. In this case, "/" is a slash, and "\" is a backslash. What's worse, looking bad because you've made a fact error, or acknowledging that you made a mistake?

• Completely unrelated to the Yankees, Don Orsillo did a good job calling the Red Sox-Angels series, but I was surprised that TBS enlisted him for that gig, since he's the primary PBP man for the Red Sox on NESN. You can either praise them for bringing in someone with knowledge of the team, having been there since February, or vilify them for the taking the risk of having a "homer" on a national broadcast. Orsillo handled himself with veteran aplomb.

YES NETWORK'S POST GAME COVERAGE
• My only real criticism of YES's post game is that it was too long. It doesn't need to last for more than an hour. With that said, I thought he setup they had this year was ideal: Flaherty and Justice in-studio with Bob Lorenz anchoring, and Kay and O'Neill providing on-field analysis with Kim Jones providing pool info from the clubhouse. Lorenz, Flaherty and Justice played off each other well, and Lorenz has gotten even better in the YES anchor role. He's very underrated. Kay excels in this role that he held during the MSG days; he was great in this role last October during the Tigers series, and he was good again this year. In the Game 4 post, it was obvious that Kay was trying to prod Paul O'Neill to call out a few players, particularly when he asked what was missing from the last few clubs compared to the four championship teams on which he played. O'Neill didn't take the bait.

• The NY Post Online supplemented their written content with clips from the YES postgame. I had not heard of a content-sharing deal between the two entities.

• Examples of Justice and Flaherty really bringing their A-games: 1) In the Game 3 post, a graphic displayed the Yankees' offensive numbers in Game 3 versus Games 1 and 2. Justice correctly pointed out that the Yankees kill middle-of-the-rotation pitchers, as did Paul O'Neill during the on-field segment. 2) When asked about Chien-Ming Wang's success threshold starting Game 4 on short rest, Flaherty brought up an interesting point about how being slightly fatigued will enhance the downward action on his sinker.

• To me, the big question of Game 3, aside from the Steinbrenner ultimatum, was Torre's decision to have Joba Chamberlain pitch the eighth inning. Based on the result, I think reporters on the scene took Torre to task on the wrong inning, and here's why: If the score had remained 5-3 after six, I would have agreed with the Joba move. After they broke it open, why not ride Phil Hughes through the seventh and save Joba for either the eighth inning or a sticky situation (whichever came first)? Perhaps Torre and Co. looked at Hughes's pitch count (63) and thought long-term for Game 4 or 5, and want to save him for another potential long-relief spot. From all that I read, Madden was the only one to present a similar theory.

SPOT THE ERROR
What's wrong with this headline from the Daily News's Web site?
 A-Rod may waive Bronx goodbye

 

Until next week ...

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Comments (74)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-10-10 09:51:10
1.   joejoejoe
Bob Brenly is good enough to do the play-by-play without Chip Caray in the booth. Does anyone here think a three man booth with Caray is better in any way than a two man booth with Brenly and Gwynn? Baseball games are so overproduced now as it is with sideline reporters and produced bits, there's no need to shove 3 people in a booth to describe the action that everyone is seeing for themselves on the TV.
2007-10-10 10:27:57
2.   51cq24
they were all awful
2007-10-10 10:31:23
3.   rbj
Chip Caray was awful.

"Now we enter the silly season of coverage. Where "sources close to the situation" determine everything, and a greatere emphasis is placed on getting the story out as opposed to getting it right. In such a competitive atmosphere to scoop everyone, this is understandable — the rumors sell papers — but it blurs the line of truth even further."

Not being in the NY area, I don't get the papers. I also don't go to their websites, because they are doing the same thing on the web; which is natural, you put your reports & columns in the paper and on the web. But I don't care anymore to read about unsubstantiated and usually wrong rumors. I would prefer to read some thoughtful analysis about why it might make sense to, e.g., keep A-Rod/let him go. And I'm finding stuff like that more and more on non-newspaper blogs such as this one. If the newspapers want to remain relevant they should stop trying to tout each newest rumor.

2007-10-10 10:32:04
4.   thelarmis
2 i agree. whole-heartedly. oh, and thanks for posting those cool Mo stats. twice, no less! : )
2007-10-10 10:34:50
5.   globalyanks
FYI- Don Orsillo did the play by play for the Rockies/Phils series not the sox series.

Also, Carry was among the worst announcers ive ever heard. In addition to getting his facts wrong, he allowed his calls to be influenced by the home crowd for all of the games. Melky's HR in game 2 barely got his voice up while a double off the wall required me to turn down the TV he was yelling so much. These examples go on and on...He made me long for fox coverage.

2007-10-10 10:35:18
6.   thelarmis
0 "Caray, on the other hand, has wavered from "OK" to "mute-worthy" as a play-by-play man."

i think he wavered from being worthy of getting fired to being fitted with a lifelong muzzle. he was terrible.

i can't even watch braves games here in atlanta when he's doing them. it's always better when the games are on fsn south or turner south, rather than tbs.

2007-10-10 10:41:26
7.   cult of basebaal
i just don't know how one can call the brenly, caray and gwynn team the best of the Divisional Series. Once you've said "chip caray", all of the other relative strengths of the other broadcasters are reduced to an "so other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you like the play?" afterthought.

after one of the indians had gotten a hit off of andy pettite by slashing a ball to the opposite field, good buddy chip loudly (and excitedly) exclaim, "that's the way guys, take him the other way!!!"

not something measured like "the indians might have figured out the right approach with pettite's pitches" ... or "if andy's gonna keep pitching them there, they have to make that adjustment" ... but rather plain, unbridled, unabashed rooting for the Indians

2007-10-10 10:43:52
8.   cult of basebaal
meanwhile ... i post this quotation from hank steinbrenner, which makes me warm and fuzzy:

"I wouldn't call it 'disappointment,' " he said. "The big thing for me, and I think for all of us, is the optimism for the next five to 10 years. We've got the young pitchers and the young players we've got coming, position players. Next year, (Joba) Chamberlain and (Phil) Hughes will be starters. We've got (Ian) Kennedy coming along. We've got some other kids in the minors. It's going to be real nice.

"We're looking pretty good. Keep trying to shore up the bullpen, and we'll be set."

-Journal News

2007-10-10 10:46:21
9.   thelarmis
7 OT (sorry) - cult, you go to the latin-jazz gig last nite?

caray was more part of the tribe than uecker in major league. he absolutely rooted for them every chance he got (and there were a lot of chances...)

2007-10-10 10:54:00
10.   williamnyy23
Caray was a disaster...saying he was OK is a disservice to OK.

I don't have a problem with Waldman crying...I have a problem with her being a terrible radio analyst.

Justice is great because he is willing to be very critical, but only when called for. The YES postgame was very good. Not sure if too long is a problem when you can always end it anytime you want by turning it off.

2007-10-10 10:54:23
11.   Andre
0 - Arod isn't "waiving" anything - he's potentially opting out. There is a difference.

I thought the broadcast team was terrible. Caray was obnoxious. Gwynn's voice was like nails on a chalk board. I could have tolerated Brenly, I guess, if he was alone. I didn't listen to any of the studio commentary except after Game 3. Wasn't impressed. It's sick that I prefer Buck & McCarver, who I also detest as a broadcast team.

I would have liked Orsillo on the Yanks/Indians broadcast team. I like listening to him in the Red Sox booth. It would have been interesting to have Remy & Orsillo call the Yanks/Tribe series.

2007-10-10 10:56:20
12.   williamnyy23
11 Remy and Orsillo are both excellent...by far, the best thing about Red Sox nation. I actually think they would both be professional calling a Yankee/Red Sox game.
2007-10-10 10:59:50
13.   yankz
I'll say it again. I'd rather listen to McCarver or Morgan than Chip Caray. I think that about sums it up.
2007-10-10 11:00:52
14.   Will Weiss
5 Thanks for the correction. ... 10 I watched the entire YES Post out of reflex, because I'd been a part of it for five years. I was also studying it to see how many angles they could, and would, take. If you can wrap up everything in a more succinct manner, why not call that to attention? And 11 ... it wasn't a "waive" versus opting out. Look at the headline again and tell me what's wrong with the usage of the word "waive." It's not a transaction terminology error; it's grammatical.
2007-10-10 11:00:54
15.   Will Weiss
5 Thanks for the correction. ... 10 I watched the entire YES Post out of reflex, because I'd been a part of it for five years. I was also studying it to see how many angles they could, and would, take. If you can wrap up everything in a more succinct manner, why not call that to attention? And 11 ... it wasn't a "waive" versus opting out. Look at the headline again and tell me what's wrong with the usage of the word "waive." It's not a transaction terminology error; it's grammatical.
2007-10-10 11:09:39
16.   Yankee Fan In Boston
14 should it read "goodbye to the bronx"?
2007-10-10 11:12:54
17.   Rob Middletown CT
Wave, not waive.

I thought the TBS crew was awful. Gwynn's problem is his voice, not necessarily what he says. That's not his fault, but it's there. Caray was a trainwreck.

But so are McCarver/Morgan/etc. Ugh. Thumbs up to Orsillo, btw. He's solid.

2007-10-10 11:14:31
18.   Rob Middletown CT
I loved how Caray was babbling about how Mike Mussina had never relieved in a game before this season.

Um, Chip? You're commenting on a post-season game, right? Ok, well, perhaps Mussina's (brilliant, game-saving) relief appearance in game 7 of the 2003 ALCS would be relevant? Moron.

2007-10-10 11:15:57
19.   Will Weiss
17 Thank you Rob from Middletown. Start applying for a copyediting gig.
2007-10-10 11:18:49
20.   Yankee Fan In Boston
there was a question about where speculation on talk radio regarding a $40M/year contract for rodriguez. mike lupica's column suggests $400M over 10 years.

no mention of flying pigs.

2007-10-10 11:23:41
21.   Rob Middletown CT
ARod has the Yanks over a barrel, and his agent knows it. So he's going to shoot for the moon. Why not? It worked before.

In Cash I trust.

2007-10-10 11:26:42
22.   williamnyy23
14 There's nothing wrong with pointing it out...I just don't think it's a valid criticism. Something tells me the length of the postgame was by design...perhaps YES would rather air a longer post game show than use the time for Guiseppe Franco infomercials? I think YES did a great job front loaded the show with the most pertinent information, and then dragging it out longer with less relevant info. It'd be one thing if they teased the viewer by saving Torre's interview for the end of the show, but they didn't do that.
2007-10-10 11:34:13
23.   51cq24
4 thank you i had fun putting it together. did you see the inherited runners and red sox stuff? he's so dominant.

i've been thinking maybe we should just have torre back. all the players love him, and despite his bad moves, they've made the playoffs every year and could well have lost the series they've lost even if he'd made the moves we think were right. i'm not sure it's worth getting rid of someone everyone knows and loves for someone who may not be well-liked and may not even make better decisions. i've thought he needed replacing for a while, but now that it comes to it i don't really know.

2007-10-10 11:34:33
24.   spufi2007
In all of the hullabaloo about A-Rod's October performance, I don't know that I've ever heard anyone criticize another Yankee free agent in this regard:

Jorge Posada postseason career
96 games
322 AB's
.236 BA
.731 OPS
9 HRs
31 RBIs

That's a big sample size -- and pretty much a whole lotta nothin'.

Of course, it's not like we have a replacement for him. So, we'll wildly overspend again -- can't wait for those gaudy stats as a 40-year old first baseman and not as a C.

2007-10-10 11:36:51
25.   williamnyy23
At this point, I am more concerned about Mo than Arod. If you read Mo's quotes, he doesn't seem very happy with how he has been handling. Cashman had better smooth this over asap, or we'll be looking at another Pettitte situation.
2007-10-10 11:40:18
26.   williamnyy23
23 If all of the players are really so bent out of shape about Torre, I could live with the following:

Sign Joe to a one-year contract with the understanding that he will retire after the season and not politic for his job. As part of his contract, he would also agree to more organizational input in how players are used and try to use a more stats-based approach to managing.

If all those terms could be bet, I could live with a farewell season for Torre (which is saying a lot, considering how poorly I think he has managed over the past 3-4 seasons).

2007-10-10 11:44:54
27.   yankz
Where would Mo go? How many rich teams need closers?

LAD, NYM, BOS, and LAA all have closers (is Wagner a FA?). I just can't see Mo going to the White Sox or Cubs.

2007-10-10 11:45:21
28.   thelarmis
23 once again, i agree. sure, there are plenty of aspects of torre's managing style that we question and infuriate us, but i think it's gonna be a whole "don't know what ya got til it's gone" kinda deal.

i also think it would be easier to bring back Mo & Po and that Andy would be more inclined to stay, with Torre still aboard. i wish Captain would all-out lobby for his manager. won't happen, of course.

yes, Mo is the major priority. he has to come back. this is the offseason of Ca$hman's career - now's the time...

2007-10-10 11:46:46
29.   thelarmis
27 no, wagner is still under contract w/ the muts. he had some inflammatory comments about willie & omar in print recently, though. he doesn't seem to make life easy on himself in the clubhouse...
2007-10-10 11:46:50
30.   Raf
While I'm not the biggest Torre fan (methinks he's a bit overrated, IMO), I think to blame him for the lack of success since 2000 is a bit of a stretch.

"Firing" Torre is change for change's sake, which is no way to run a ballclub. And doesn't guarantee that the next guy will do a better job. The managerial musical chairs played during the 80's should've shown that.

2007-10-10 11:46:55
31.   yankz
28 Why not? Jeter called Steinbrenner last year when Torre had been "fired" and "replaced" by Piniella.
2007-10-10 11:52:03
32.   Bama Yankee
Caray was beyond awful. I'd rather listen to Tim McCarver doing an impersonation of Joe Morgan quoting Hawk Harrelson than be forced to hear one more inning of Chip "this crowd is up for grabs" Caray. They should have just went with the Indians broadcasters, they probably would have been less biased...
2007-10-10 11:53:41
33.   williamnyy23
30 I wont waste everyone's time by beating a dead horse, but there is a litany of post season screws-up since at least 2003. Replacing Torre isn't change for change sakes, but one could argue that keeping him is avoiding change for avoiding change's sake.
2007-10-10 11:54:18
34.   williamnyy23
32 Cleveland Rocks!!!
2007-10-10 11:55:29
35.   Cliff Corcoran
19 How can you be sure they didn't intend the headline as a pun, meaning they didn't misspell the word so much as get their facts wrong? It's obviously wrong one way or the other, but you can't really be sure which mistake they made.
2007-10-10 11:55:31
36.   cult of basebaal
hi, i'm Cult of Basebaal and I'd like to say that ... ummmm ... I ... yeah ... I'm okay with Torre coming back for another year, too*

*under circumstances similar to what william outlined, though i'm not sure whether torre would ever go for a 1 year contract ...

2007-10-10 11:55:54
37.   cult of basebaal
35 yeah, that was my reaction to it as well ...
2007-10-10 11:56:19
38.   51cq24
25 and 26 i agree with what you say and your proposal. honestly, as much as i think it's silly for players to threaten to leave if torre isn't back, if that's what it takes to get mariano, posada and pettitte back, i'm more than willing to deal with another year of questionable bullpen management.

there is 1 decision torre made in the last few years that i think definitely led to their elimination, and that was leaving gordon in for too long in game 5 in 2004. but even there it wasn't hard to understand why he did it. mariano had blown the save the game before and had been shaky against boston all year. still the absolute wrong decision, but i'm over it.

as for game 4 of the 2003 world series, that was another wrong decision. but there is no way we can say for sure that we would have won that game or the series had mo pitched. he could have given up a rare run. and even if he pitches in the bottom of the 11th, yankees could easily have been held scoreless in the 12th, and then even if he'd pitched the bottom of the 12th, someone else would have had to pitch in the bottom of the 13th, either closing out the game or trying to extend it. still the wrong decision, but i think it's completely overrated.

let's just keep him and keep the major parts of this team here.

2007-10-10 11:57:03
39.   williamnyy23
35 I agree with Cliff...I think it is more likely a pun gone bad than a grammatical error.
2007-10-10 11:57:16
40.   vockins
I think there were about nine different statistics that were "all I need to know" or "the story of this series."

"The Indians have twelve extra base hits with two outs, and the Yanks have two - that's all you need to know."

"Cleveland relief has let just four men on base after the eighth inning - that's the story of this series."

"When Travis Hafner has faced a right hander born under the sign of Capricorn the evening after I've eaten an owl and pigeon egg omlette garnished with gold dust for breakfast, he's gotten the game winning hit - that's all you need to know."

2007-10-10 11:58:36
41.   Bama Yankee
34 LOL, I almost forgot about that one... Chip Caray, what a doofus (does he think he's Drew Carey?)
2007-10-10 11:59:53
42.   51cq24
and by the way, 1 team that has money and needs a closer is detroit.
2007-10-10 12:00:22
43.   Shaun P
25 Mo has been saying these kinds of things since pitchers and catchers reported. He's trying to obtain maximum leverage.

On the one hand, he's THE GREAT MARIANO RIVERA.

On the other hand, he's going to be 38, had something of an iffy year (at least in the public's mind, maybe in his own too), missed significant portions of both years with injuries, and has only gotten 64 saves the last 2 years - and none in the postseason. Saves may be a useless stat, but they're the big number when you're a closer seeking your payday. Mo (and his agent) know these are the kinds of things that will be brought up during the negotiating. They can't argue with the numbers and the facts, so where does their leverage come from? "I feel disrespected." "I'm going to test the market." "No guarantee I'm back with the Yanks next year."

Mo will be signed, no doubt.

2007-10-10 12:01:33
44.   williamnyy23