0 "Alex and I will be cranking up the postseason previews and such"

Thanks in advance.

0 Nice wrap up on a wild (almost) final weekend in MLB. Same here regarding Willie, one of my all time Yankee favorites. Just like with Yogi, I like to think we're just lending Willie to the Mets for a bit and he'll be back where he belongs before its all said and done.

MatsZilla as DH and Damon in left? Sounds good to me!

Having a lot of trouble sorting out how they did it. Looking forward to the end of season review. Figured them no better than 90 wins. Too easy to give A-Rod all the credit, though he deserves a lot. Career year from Jorge. Jete doing what he does. Solidified the outfield. Bobby woke up. Mature Cano and Melky. First base a blur. What did Jason do? Does he have a role if Matsui DHs? Have they fixed the bench? No clue about the pitching. Make some sense of it please, guys, for me.

Have to be positive about the post-season, I suppose if the Janks play the Indians and the Sox they have a chance. No confidence against the Angels. Still getting over the Tiger debacle. Actually, I am caught in 2004.

I be rooting for A-Rod. I know that Jete will be there.

Just looking at the box, the Yankees's rookie pitcher's ended the season on a nice and special way. It is a foreshadowing for 08 & 09 and the emergence of a much younger pitching staff. We have an ample supply of talented young minor league arms:Alan Horne,Jeffrey Marquez,Justin Pope,Kevin Whelan,Anthony Claggett,Christian Garcia,Andrew Brackman ,Joba Chamberlain ,Tyler Clippard ,Matt DeSalvo ,Sean Henn ,Phil Hughes,Kei Igawa ,Jeff Karstens ,Ian Kennedy ,Ross Ohlendorf ,Edwar Ramirez ,Humberto Sanchez ,Chien-Ming Wang ,Chase Wright , Dellin Betances,Jairo Heredia,Daniel McCutchen,and JB Cox. The balance of the league, including the Sox, have to be, at the minimum, concerned. Hopefully all of the old farts, Moose, Rocket and Andy can will one to compensate for the losses in 03 and 01. Go Old farts!!!!!!!!

Just an amazing season. I had been resigned to no October this year, an amazing comeback.

And how about the Jints making McNabb their b!tch last night.

Cliff,

I'll concede that the contributions of a manager are qualitative, but they can't be overlooked nonetheless.

Torre kept the team focused on the long term goal through short term chaos in the first 60 days, until Alex's shot in the 9th in the rain in Boston gave the team a glimmer of hope.

Compare that to Randolph...by all accounts a great guy, but he bears some responsibility. He will manage again somewhere, we know that.

Cliff, I'd be interested to hear your six-degrees connection to Willie.

Received a Mets post-mortem e-mail (titled 'oy') from a childhood friend of mine who remains a tortured fan of the club from Queens. He's an otherwise bright and reasonable person, but he wants Willie gone... now.

Even as a longtime Willie Randolph idolizer myself, I can see how my friend wants Willie gone. Change at the top, even if only for the sake of change, might be the best way for the Mets and their tortured fans to proceed. It's certainly the easiest way to achieve that fresh-start feeling without douching. Willie lost that team somewhere along the way, even if everybody knows the pitchers are mostly to blame. My brother-in-law, a Mets and Glavine fan who smelled yesterday's disaster coming, believes the
season turned on Duque's bunion. Oy, indeed.

From what I know about the Mets, Willie is not the heart, nor "the big toe," the Sgt. Hulka of the team. Wright said some good things about Willie yesterday, but I suspect Wright is the kind of person who always says the right thing about his manager.

Seems to me that Willie hasn't earned the love and trust of his players, (which says more about them than him), the bond that has taken Torre this far.
Of course this is not to say the Met year would have ended any differently with Joe, or Scoscia, or Piniella, or especially dopey Charlie Manuel at the helm.

Yes, pitchers still have to pitch, hitters have to hit, and fielders have to catch and throw -- but players have to respond to their manager either out of love or spite,
and Willie doesn't seem to inspire anything in these Mets. They flatlined, not suddenly like the 2004 Yanks flatlined, but over three morbid weeks of hideous baseball. Yes, that kind of crash is everyone's fault: the players, coaches, manager, and GM.

The Mets have to question their soul at this point. Who is the soul of that team?
Wright? but not Reyes? What manager embodies the soul of the Mets? Who is the best manager to lead them forward?

For the 2005 Yankees Torre was still the answer, but for the 2008 Mets it's
not nearly as clear who embodies their soul.

Before the season, everyone knew the Mets' achilles heel would be starting pitching depth. After 40+ Glavine and 40+ El Duque, there were question marks. The Mets were a flawed team, but they were perceived to be the least flawed in the NL East.

The bullpen seemed OK, at least in terms of depth. But they really missed Duaner Sanchez.

The 35-19 run to start the season was carried by the offense, and the 53-55 finish was induced by injuries, tired bullpen and a September fadeout by Reyes.

Glavine was beyond dreadful yesterday. Talk about a let down. It was like reliving Kevin Brown in the 2004 ALCS all over again.

Ultimately, the Mets continue to pay the price for one of the worse trades EVAH; Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano. Trading young talented pitchers away for no good reason. All because that dope Peterson assured the Wilpons that he could fix anyone. What an ego. Is Zambrano even still in the league? I remember when Rick Peterson was supposed to be the pitching coach god would solve all a team's pitching issues. Whaa happened?

I just hope that Willie isn't made the scapegoat for Wilpon, Minaya and Peterson's follies.

7 The Mets don't need a soul. They need 2 young talented pitchers.

10 The Mets would sell what's left of their soul for that.

Well, trouble for the Mets is, they really don't have a lot of Major League-ready help on the AAA level.

I don't see 5 more John Maines down in New Orleans.

They need a catcher (unless they bring back LoDuca, or think that Castro is the full-time solution). Delgado was invisible the first 1/2 of the year, and is clearly nearing the end. Second base MIGHT be solved by Castillo (though his knees are STILL bothering him, even after getting off the Metrodome turf).

The corner outfield quandry will continue in 2008. Is Milledge the real deal? How many ABs can you get out of Alou?

Hmmm .... I wonder if Torii Hunter would be willing to play right?

10 ,11 Yeah they could use a couple guys like Kazmir and Bannister. But I guess Victor Zambrano and Ambiorix Burgos were worth the risk. ;)

On WNYC this morning, a Mets fan said something to the effect of, "[a]fter this, I feel stupid for being so happy for six months." I thought that was the most perceptive and succinct statement about what it must be like to be a Mets fan this morning that I have yet heard.

The bargain we make as fans is that we will invest our time, hope, faith and even our discretionary income in the enterprise while the team will strive toward the appointed goal. As long as the players appear to fulfill their end of the bargain--the striving, not necessarily the winning--we fans can ultimately live with the results. To the Phil Mushnicks and Mike Lupicas of the world, investing this sort of faith in a commercial enterprise makes fans suckers, but truthfully it makes fans human: we are social animals, and we all want a tribe of some sort with which we can identify.

Throughout their history, this has been the story of the Mets. Comical ineptitude and falling short in the face of tremendous odds has been all right with Mets fans because it's the human condition, and because their faith has also been rewarded with unlikely successes that are more the stuff of literature than sport.

That's why this is new emotional territory for Mets fans--the club's effort didn't appear to match the fans' passion. Thus, it's hard to blame Mets fans for feeling like the victims of a confidence game this morning. For them, I feel tremendous empathy. For the organization, particularly the players who admitted to being bored and who appeared to do so little to prevent the Mets from catching the Phillies down the stretch, I feel none.

Can anyone elaborate on Hideki's fluid-in-the-knee thing?

What sort of condition is this and might it be responsible for his pulling off pitches?

Can we look to him to hit better after the drainage?--that would be nice.

Otherwise, it's good Damon's the everyday leftfielder going forward. He's hitting now and he'll run into walls for us. Look to him to up the intensity level, I'd say.

I feel pretty good going forward.

And alas, poor Mets.

14 Very eloquently said, Murray.

So, do we have to wait for tonight's game before we know what time the games are this week?

Is there any way to fast forward the next 3 days?

Wanna know why I think Torre should go?

After yesterday's game, he had this to say about a potential dominant starter/staff ace:

"This youngster in the last couple of months has found himself a new career," Torre said. "He certainly has good enough stuff to come out of the bullpen and be effective."

Great, while you're at it Joe, why don't you take A-Rod and make him the pinch hitter.

19 Sounds like he was talking about Ross Olendorf. And if he was then he is correct.

After the recent unpleasant experience we suffered during the year that shall forever remain nameless with me I find it hard to celebrate the Mets' crash and burn. Their fans can be obnoxious but what the heck so are we.

No, there's only one group whose agony I'll celebrate in this context. '78 and '86 are still "a very big smile" for me. Besides after supplying us with '86 and given Willie was at the helm this year it's hard to feel good about it.

Stupid Mets.

20 Could be, the preceding paragraph from the write up was:

"In the seventh, Posada went to the mound to remove Ross Ohlendorf and summon standout rookie Joba Chamberlain. The right-hander retired his only batter to finish with an 0.38 ERA in 24 innings."

Unless it's poorly written, he's talking about Joba.

19 20

Jim is right, Torre was referring to Ohlendorf in that quote, I heard him on the Yes postgame. And I totally agree with that take.

I feel terrible about the Mets; I'm still thankful for what they did in Game 6 in 1986. That was a great game. Although, the obnoxiousness of Met fans back in, say, June is a little hard to forget.

20 He was and he is.

17 I believe so.

9 Zambrano's on the O's now and just pitched against the Yanks yesterday . . . in relief. He's been with at least three organizations since he had Tommy John and the Mets dropped him. He keeps getting released.

7 One of the authors I worked with at my former editing job went to high school with Willie in Brooklyn.

22 Didn't see the article, but, yes, poorly written. And think about it, that praise would be a bit weak if he were talking about Joba. But huge for Ohlendorf.

18 here here! Speed dial these days please....

24 thanks. That is what I thought.

Also, to be fair, there are an awful lot of very intelligent people who think that Joba should be groomed as the Yankees' next closer. I think they're dead wrong, but it's too many for me to simply dismiss with ridicule.

21 Don't forget that pennant in 2003! That one was a barrel of monkeys, too.

I see a qualitative difference between '78 and '86 and what happened to the 2007 Mets: as a Yankee fan, I don't have to apologize for feeling good when my team beats an adversary as it did in 1978 and 2003, just as I wouldn't expect any sympathy in 2004 from a Red Sox fan (in fact, I'd tell him what he could do with it, Tanner Boyle-style). Because the Mets are my "B" rooting interest after the Yankees, I feel no guilt in being happy about 1986. I think the only people who owe the Mets no apologies this morning for their unrestrained joy are Phillies fans.

18 I TIVO'd the next 3 months. I'd tell you what happens, but I don't want to ruin it. All I will say is that you aren't getting that Ferrarri for Christmas. Again. :(

I don't watch the Mets, I don't know who to blame. But if the question is, Omar or Willie, I would say this.

Maybe Willie wasn't inspiring, or rah-rah, or whatever. I can't measure that stuff.

But I can evaluate Omar somewhat. He had to know the key to this team was the bullpen, because the starting pitching (except Maine) was old and questionable. But what made him think that Jorge Sosa, Aaron Sele, and Scott Schoeneweis (to name 3) were not going to pitch like Jorge Sosa, Aaron Sele, and Scott Schoeneweis? Those guy threw over 225 innings!

I wouldn't fire either, but if I was a Mets fan, I'd be asking Omar what the heck he was thinking when building his bullpen before I said a word about Willie.

19 What, and that thought hasn't crossed just about EVERY Yankees fan's mind in the last few months?

A few more times of Mo loading the bases in the playoffs and IMO there's going to be some serious discussions about the future of the closer role on this team...

31 I was referring to Joba, but I agree with Joe on Ollie as well.

30

Well, at least they didn't fork over $55 million for Gil Meche ...

33 Of course Gil Meche piched very well. Not $55 million well, but still, very well.

33 And I forgot entirely about trading away Heath Bell (for Ben Johnson and Jon Adkins, who both did nothing for the Mets). The Burgos-Bannister deal I can understand; Bannister is bound to collapse next year. Trading Bell away I cannot.

27 31 et al

Because Torre was talking about Ohlendorf, then my original comment is pretty much irrelevant because there was no need for Joba to have a new career as 25 suggests. I think that there are fewer and fewer people that think that Joba will be anything less than a front of the rotation starter and possible perennial Cy Young candidate.

In 2003, once Johan Santana was in the bullpen, some intelligent people also thought that was the most effective way to use him and were hesitant in making him a starter again.

As if you needed more ammo against our two favorite Red Sox:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu43lbTrvOQ

What a bunch of clowns.

ric, you watching this? I'm sure you are.

does anyone else feel that this season flew by in a hurry?

you'd think a season as excruciating as this was at times would have dragged on and on.

I can't believe that the Yankees haven't seen Sabathia since 2004. That's crazy.

Also, according to ESPN.com, every single one of their baseball analysts is picking the Sox over the Halos. Crikey.

37 i sincerely hope that clip is played on the jumbotron each and every time he comes into a road game. can you imagine him giving his "papelglare" while his little jig is being played behind him?

thank you for that.

36 So you don't think a sure-thing, lock-down closer is harder to come by than a starter?

Not saying Joba shouldn't start games, but do you see anyone