Baseball Toaster: Bronx Banter : Couple of Three Things...

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Couple of Three Things...

2007-09-21 08:46

by Alex Belth

Over at BP, Joe Sheehan thinks the Red Sox are being smart in giving some of their starting players a breather:

It would behoove Joe Torre to start doing this as well. The Yankees are up five games in the loss column on the Tigers, with a magic number of seven for the wild card. If form holds through the weekend and the Yankees' magic number reaches three or so, Torre needs to worry less about seeding and more about making sure his aging team is ready to go on October 2. Alex Rodriguez has missed two games all year, and none since August 8. Robinson Cano hasn't missed a game since May 6. Jorge Posada has played his usual 130-odd games behind the plate; a couple of extra days off next week couldn't hurt. I can't quantify the effects of rest on a player's performance, but I can say that the cost of doing so—possibly ending up as the wild card versus winning the division—is essentially zero.

At ESPN, Buster Olney thinks that Alex Rodriguez could find a good home with the L.A. Dodgers:

Rodriguez might be a perfect addition at the perfect time for the Dodgers. He would give them the power they need, in home run production and in marketing; they could build their business plan around his pursuit of Barry Bonds' home run record.

Friends of A-Rod don't think he would be interested in playing in the National League. We'll see. Some within the Yankees' organization wonder if any team will be willing to pay A-Rod as much as the Yankees can pay him; others think that it's all but a lock that A-Rod will leave the Yanks.

If he does go, the Dodgers would be a perfect landing spot for him, if the team is ready to spend big.

Finally, in the Times, Goose Gossage says he likes Joba. That's not a shocker. Neither is this:

"I really don't see how they can think about making him a starter after what we've seen," Gossage said in a telephone interview. "You can find starters — I know they have other young kids — but how are you going to find another character like him? How are you going to replace him? Before he came up, those setup guys were killing them."

Goose, we love ya, but um, got to disagree with on this one. However, this quote is more like it:

"I saw him throw those two pitchers over Kevin Youkilis's head when they played Boston," he said. "I loved it. The same thing used to happen with me when I tried to get it inside. When I missed, my body would get out front, my arm would lag and the ball would fly.

"And guess what? It was a great purpose pitch, only now they're protecting these hitters every chance they get. It makes me sick. I went crazy when they tossed the kid that day. I screamed, 'What the heck is this game coming to?' "

Back when I played...

Comments (96)

Show/Hide Comments 1-50

2007-09-21 09:06:17

1. wsporter

Well ,,, What the heck is this game coming to?

2007-09-21 09:15:41

2. Alex Belth

I know, it's funny how often old ballplayers sound like Grandpa Simpson, whether I agree with them or not. Then again, maybe it's not just ballplayers. I feel like an crotchity old bastard half the time these days too.

2007-09-21 09:18:26

3. Zack

I was too young to really see Goose in his prime, just the old version hanging on at the end, but even so he's one of my favorites. They should have him come be the BP coach and really teach Farnsworth how to pitch and be intimidating. That being said, what Joba can provide as a starter is so much more valuable than as a reliever...

AS for resting the starters, all i can say is, home field advantage means a lot to the yanks, just look at Wang's home vs road splits...

2007-09-21 09:21:49

4. Mattpat11

3 I could see Farnsworth somehow ruining Gossage. I don't know how or what you would do to ruin a retired ball player, But Farnworth is Midas in Reverse.

2007-09-21 09:27:56

5. Mattpat11

I though the magic number was five.

2007-09-21 09:31:33

6. Chyll Will

I have a theory. Much of everything is being marketed to traditional college-aged demos; the kind that spend easy and wild right before they settle down with a family. If the game were treated like a game instead of a product (such as it seemed until Selig and ESPN wormed their way into the commish's office), then bad umpiring, drug policy and sensible scheduling would have been tackled before they became national spotlight issues. The biggest problem with baseball is in the commish/owners/networks' offices.

"Bud Selig doesn't care about real fans."

2007-09-21 09:33:41

7. wsporter

2 I am a crotchety old bastard but I'm desperately trying to reform. When an idiot umpire tosses a kid who didn't actually hit anyone when no warnings have been issued it doesn't help.

As to the warning pitch issue I never saw Goose have to throw more than one! When he threw it everybody backed off the plate, including Mickey Rivers.

2007-09-21 09:33:43

8. Mattpat11

Bud Selig cares about few people not named Selig.

2007-09-21 09:35:08

9. Chyll Will

4 Sadim? Didn't they just get rid of that guy? EVERYTHING is reverse when it comes to Farns, huh?

2007-09-21 09:38:30

10. Bama Yankee

6 "Bud Selig doesn't care about real fans."

Are you Kanye East? ;-)

2007-09-21 09:39:50

11. rbj

I doubt A-Rod would go to Dodger Stadium -- it's a pitcher's park and if he wants 800 HRs he wouldn't get them there.

2007-09-21 09:44:12

12. Chyll Will

10 I certainly caught Dana Carvey off-guard >;)

2007-09-21 09:45:09

13. NJYankee41

11 Something tells me with the way he has handled "Death Valley", park dimensions are the least of his concerns. I just hope he cares about Yankee lore and wants that cap on his plaque.

2007-09-21 09:49:14

14. Shaun P

11 And the McCourts have had money issues before - even with guys (Wolf, Gonzalez, etc) coming off the books, I don't see them ponying up $30+M.

I'm not smart enough to figure this out for sure (Wang's numbers on just turf may skew his home-road splits - you could look it up), but my thinking goes like this:

The Yanks' best pitcher is Wang. The Yanks want their best pitcher to be able to pitch twice in the ALDS if it goes to 5 games. Wang pitches much better at home. The only way Wang pitches two games at home if the ALDS goes to 5 is for the Yanks to have homefield advantage. The only way for the Yanks to have homefield is to win the division. Thus, winning the division is a good thing.

2007-09-21 09:56:25

15. Chyll Will

13 I think a bigger factor would be if he's really matured as much as he seems to have this season. Having made his point with a magic season, and being a presence in the playoffs, what does he value the most? His ultimate decision will tell you exactly that, but if he leaves after playing on the biggest stage in all baseball in the prime of his career, it'll never get better for him, no matter how green the sports writers make the grass elsewhere.

2007-09-21 09:59:18

16. RIYank

4 Yeah, that's good, I agree.
Although I wouldn't be too unhappy with Pettitte pitching twice in a five game series, I have to say.

2007-09-21 09:59:47

17. RIYank

Dang, this just isn't my day for references. By 4 I mean 14 .

2007-09-21 10:03:37

18. pistolpete

My first instinct is always to drop the hammer on the Sox.

But then you have to look at what the extra day did for Rocket & Moose, and it suddenly becomes a better idea to rest the regulars as well.

I think the next series is going to decide that for Joe Torre anyway - if we take 2 or 3 and the Tigers tank a few more games, we're up 7 or 8 on the WC by next Tuesday.

Then let's forget this silly division stuff and get the old men some rest.

2007-09-21 10:03:37

19. yankz

WasWatching has the numbers. Wang is the Cy Young winner at home, and below average on the road. Clemens is drastically different as well.

14 Home field is overrated. The Marlins won two- count 'em, TWO!- World Series without it. Therefore the Yankees should not try for it.*

*Sarcasm

2007-09-21 10:06:51

20. pistolpete

18 should be: what the 'extra days' did for Rocket & Moose

2007-09-21 10:07:52

21. Bama Yankee

12 Good call on Dana Carvey (in a Bizarro World sorta way). The best I could do was picturing you standing next to one of these guys:
http://tinyurl.com/yr9vyp
http://tinyurl.com/yv8aue
Of course, either one of those guys would be much too dangerous to stand close to for any length of time (if the knife don't getcha, then the line drive will)...

2007-09-21 10:16:51

22. Chyll Will

21 Reminds me of my prom (sigh)...

2007-09-21 10:27:02

23. Mattpat11

18 I think it might be time to stop worrying about the Tigers all together.

2007-09-21 10:27:48

24. Mattpat11

BTW, Vernon Wells is done.

2007-09-21 10:29:38

25. pistolpete

23 Talk to me on Tuesday. If we're swept and Detroit wins their games, things aren't so comfortable anymore.

2007-09-21 10:33:14

26. Mattpat11

25 Yes, if the Yankees completely collapse, Detroit is back in it. So is Seattle for that matter.

2007-09-21 10:36:14

27. RichB

I think A-Rod has a crucial moment here. He already tried going for the money, but Texas couldn't afford to pay him and still win ballgames. Rocket tried the same thing. In 1996, even though courted by the Yanks, he signed with Toronto and after two years it was clear he wasn't within sniffing distance of a ring. Like Roger, A-Rod will get all the other accolades and records and awards no matter where he plays. But, if he wants to actually get paid and get rings, there's only one reliable place to go - the Bronx.

2007-09-21 10:42:57

28. Schteeve

Daggummit you whippersnappers!

2007-09-21 10:47:03

29. Yankee Fan In Boston

this just in:

Phil Rizzuto Tribute
(at Yankee Stadium, of course)
Pre-game ceremony starts at 12:30 pm, on Sun., Sept. 23

oh, how i'd love to be there for that.

tickets are still available.

2007-09-21 10:50:25

30. Mattpat11

Here's a question for you.

If we get home field and the "normal" ALDS schedule, would you (or Joe) start Andy Pettitte game 3?

Wang and Roger are much better at home. Pettitte is slightly better on the road, hughes is much better on the road. Torre likes to put a big starter for game three.

I might do it.

2007-09-21 10:59:26

31. weeping for brunnhilde

I don't like this business about Alex, Alex, but since you bring it up, if he does fly away, who's going to play third base?

Any likely candidates pop to mind?

2007-09-21 11:00:54

32. weeping for brunnhilde

4 Hee-hee!

2007-09-21 11:02:22

33. weeping for brunnhilde

13 Exactly.

2007-09-21 11:02:42

34. RIYank

30 No doubt about it.

That way (with Pettitte third), you still definitely get one start each out of your top three. With home field advantage, it's plainly better to have Wang twice at home than Pettitte twice at home. So as I see it, there is no cost to moving Pettitte to the third spot.

Oh, well, there's the way your rotation is set up for the ALCS assuming you win the DS, but that's going to be have a big random element anyway.

2007-09-21 11:03:32

35. RIYank

31 Mike Lowell.

2007-09-21 11:04:30

36. weeping for brunnhilde

35 Really?

I'd take him.

2007-09-21 11:05:50

37. RIYank

36 Absolutely.

The only rub would be if he was looking for (and getting elsewhere) a long contract. I think I'd give him up to three years.

2007-09-21 11:09:33

38. williamnyy23

Goose's comments are a little ironic. As I mentioned at the end of the previous thread, Goose had wanted to be a starter early in his career. In 1976, the White Sox gave it a try, but Goose wound up with an ERA+ of 90 for the season. After that, he never started another game. The Yankees should take the same approach with Joba. Let him start and if, and only if, he fails, happily make him a dominant closer for the next 10 seasons.

2007-09-21 11:12:56

39. williamnyy23

35 36 I don't think Lowell would be a good choice at all. He is pretty much going to parlay a 130 OPS+ career season into a long-term deal and then go back to playing at his career norm of 110. Even if he did maintain his 2007 totals, he'd still constitute a huge drop off. Also, Lowell has huge H/R splits: 1.005/.768. His RH bat would wither at Yankee Stadium. In many ways Lowell is a product of Fenway.

2007-09-21 11:13:56

40. Mattpat11

37 My issue with Lowell is his second half swoons. Not this year, but it is a contract year.

2007-09-21 11:14:13

41. Bama Yankee

31 Wilson Betemit

2007-09-21 11:16:28

42. williamnyy23

If Arod does walk (I can feel my chest tightening just think about the possibility), the Yankees need to make Miguel Cabrera a top priority. No matter how you slice it, there is no replacement for Arod.

One thing to keep in mind is that Tejada should be available this winter and many accounts have him on the verge of moving to 3B due to decreased mobility. He could emerge as an option too, but that would be a mistake, IMHO.

2007-09-21 11:25:56

43. RIYank

39 OPS+ is ballpark adjusted, so he isn't a product of Fenway at all.

But I'd certainly take Miguel Cabrera.

2007-09-21 11:29:06

44. seamus

ugh, i hate, hate, hate mike lowell. please no...

2007-09-21 11:32:09

45. NJYankee41

We should all pitch in and take out a one page ad in one of the newspapers to beg A-Rod to stay in NY. It would be a two-fold ad as it would be news in itself. And of course it would have to end with a big fat HA!

2007-09-21 11:32:55

46. Yankee Fan In Boston

43 miguel cabrera is the next manny ramirez. yes, an amazing hitter, but can lack hustle at times.

he's said that he'd rather not play for the yankees, citing the "rules" he'd have to abide by.

plus he probably won't play 3rd much longer.

i don't have any other suggestions, though.

2007-09-21 11:33:48

47. Yankee Fan In Boston

45 i'd chip in for that.

2007-09-21 11:33:52

48. Mattpat11

42 That would be a huge mistake for so many reasons, not the least of which is I don't know how many more times he's going to dodge a bullet in regards to steroids.

2007-09-21 11:42:50

49. wsporter

43 I like Lowell. He seems like a classy guy but ....

Lowell's H/A splits:

Home 71 267 48 101 13 1 13 63 155 23 32 3 0 .424 .581 .378
Away 73 284 23 79 22 1 6 46 121 28 31 0 2 .342 .426 .278

Yeah his OPS+ is ok but my lying eyes are still trying to tell me something.

2007-09-21 11:45:29

50. yankz

45 I'm in, assuming I get to sign it "yankz."

Show/Hide Comments 51-100

2007-09-21 11:47:53

51. JoeInRI

42 Wait . . . are you saying that their are other players that have juiced besides Barry and Giambino?? Say it isn't so!!!

48 Miggy could also be the 1b of the future

2007-09-21 11:50:31

52. NJYankee41

50 I was thinking more along the lines of from Bronx Banter. But you are definitely my second choice ;)

2007-09-21 11:50:50

53. Yankee Fan In Boston

51 yeah! bring back miguel cairo!

...oh... you meant... gotcha...

2007-09-21 11:52:21

54. Bama Yankee

49 Plus, where would Lowell be without Yankee pitching from which to feast: (.382/.447/.676)?

Actually, that might be a good reason to get him... that guy has killed us this year. Also, where would Boston be without him this year?

2007-09-21 11:54:19

55. Bama Yankee

53 Reading that almost made me as sick as that Sid Vicious leg break video that I posted in the last thread...

2007-09-21 11:56:18

56. pistolpete

31 Heh, I see Aaron Boone's name on the list...

2007-09-21 11:59:06

57. pistolpete

56 Speaking of FA's, has anyone gotten a gander at the SP offerings for this upcoming offseason?

Yikes.

Let's just say it's the best reason bringing up Hughes, Kennedy and Joba this year was a great idea.

2007-09-21 12:05:06

58. Ben

45 that's a great idea. You need to get a few hundred people to chip in, but I bet it could be done. Everyone could sign the thing, it would be hilarious. What's more, I bet it would work. A-rod wouldn't be able to resist.

2007-09-21 12:08:38

59. williamnyy23

43 Not necessarily. Players can play even better at their home ballpark than the adjustment. Take a look at Lowell's splits. His home OPS+ is 160 versus a road OPS+ of 106. As I mentioned, the Lowell who has an OPS+ of 130 is a creation of Fenway.

2007-09-21 12:08:39

60. NJYankee41

45 I looked up the rates in the NY Times. I have to admit it kind of confused me. I'm not sure if it would only cost a little over $1,000 or I have to figure out the rate based on the columns and such. If anyone wants to check it out:

http://tinyurl.com/34t5c9

2007-09-21 12:15:17

61. RIYank

154 (= David Murphy post-trade OPS+)

2 (= rank of Engel Beltre among prospects in the Arizona League, http://tinyurl.com/34deaz)

I love Eric Gagne.

2007-09-21 12:15:41

62. Yankee Fan In Boston

60 i was checking for rates as well... nothing available online for newsday... i nixed the post before i even started.

2007-09-21 12:20:42

63. NJYankee41

62 Ha I did the same thing with the Post. Screw them. I looked at Daily News but you had to contact someone for rates and I am unsure what it would fall under given their choices. NY Times had the best info, its just a matter of making sense out of it.

2007-09-21 12:20:44

64. RIYank

60 The latter, I'm afraid. That's the price per inch. And a full page is 128 column inches.

On the bright side, there's an 8% discount for buying a whole page, so it would really cost only about $120,000.

2007-09-21 12:23:10

65. NJYankee41

64 Thats exactly what I was afraid of and it makes complete sense.

2007-09-21 12:37:54

66. wsporter

64 So if we get all 120,000 of us who contribute to this blog to kick in a buck each ...

2007-09-21 12:39:28

67. Sliced Bread

64 Better to donate $120,000 to The ARod Family Foundation which his wife runs.