They're not a good team. I'd rather face them when they're playing well because its not going to last.

3 of 4.

It is a wonderful reminder that everytime (OUR/YOUR/THEIR) team loses, that there is a knee-jerk reaction to blame the manager, who for some reason, for all their experience in baseball, and with the power of their respective organization behind them, somehow still knows less about managing then any one of us.

"Francona needs to be fired. He never puts his best team on the field. He is continually letting his players decide when they want to play. Does Francona really believe he has the organization's and the fan's best interest at heart? How can Sox management keep him as manager? He is still managing like it is the middle of the season and that it is a given that the Sox are going to the playoffs. I now find myself cheering against the Sox to make the playoffs because if they make the playoffs Francona and Epstein (yes, Epstein - he needs to be held accountable for this travesty) will think they have done a good job - which they have not. Henry is a weak owner to let this happen. The Henry lovefest should end. What a joke!"

I really do want to win the division, but listening to the turncoats of Red Sox Nation is soooooooooooo much fun, it may be better then the division itself.

It's amazing how you can take many of their comments and simply substitute JT for Francona, Cashman for Theo, Farns for Gagme, and you have exactly what was said by some here when the Yankees were going bad.

I think you are seriously stretching things to create parallels between knowledgeable dissent and unadulterated panic.

"With all the crap about Drew, Gagne, etc., which is needed, why leave out the real problem? The real problem lies with the manager. I know this, you know this, and anyone who watches the Sox knows this. We have a manager that does [not] know how to use the bullpen, who will not make needed changes because it might hurt someone's feelings. This is a poor way for the manager to work, or in this case PLAY. If we fall behind the Yankees you can place the results at the feet of one man, FRANCONA. From now on tell it like it is. "

vs.

"Just because the Yankees are now playing better doesn't mean Torre has absolved himself. He is still a poor in-game manager and still has trouble managing his bullpen. With the postseason now on the horizon, Torre causes me even more concern as that is when he has done his most damage over the past 4 years."

Nope, not at all similar.

Can you imagine a mailbag if WE pull off the division? (Too good to stand!)

"On the day after, manager Terry Francona was unwavering in his support of reliever Eric Gagné. Even before Gagné blew a save in Tuesday's 4-3 loss to the Blue Jays, Francona said he told the reliever, 'We'll do it again, in case you were wondering.'"

Too Good.

And while I do think there is legitimate criticism of Torre's in game managing, Edes makes a very good point:

"Tito wanted to see if a guy he's hoping to count on in October against Jeter and A-Rod or Vladi or Sizemore in October could get out the immortal Russ Adams in September. He couldn't, which sends up all kinds of red flags. You can certainly make the argument-and many of you are-that Tito lost sight of the first priority: The heck with tomorrow, win today, get Paps in there."

Sometimes you put the wrong guy in, just to see what he has for later in the season & the post season.

That said, that Mickey D's angus burger commercial where Boston is begging to be a test market would be in heavy-heavy rotation if they do fall out of the playoffs, no?

Toronno? Meh. I guess it's easy to imagine the Yankee bats going quiet during that 3 game stretch of matinees, lulled to sleep in the shadowy warmth of summer's last gasp.

On the other foot, the Blue Jays have annoyed the Yankees to the point that they might have to get smacked in the chops a couple times this weekend, put in their place for winter storage. Figure the third baseman will lock in on any mistakes they throw him, though they pitched him very well last week. Gave him nothing to drive, which started his struggles.

O happy day! Do it three more times, Tito. I'm sure he'll come through for you.

All decisions will be disected if the Yanks lose, if they win he's a genius. If any normal person can't see how unfair that logic is then why watch if it's to run to one side or the other.

Sometimes you have to take a deep breath and accept things for what they are. If the Yanks lose then they weren't good enough. If your starter can't give you 6+ innings then it makes any decision you make to be questioned and second guessed. Especially if it happens on back-to-back days and your bullpen throws too many pitches and/or innings. We can all act like we know what the right decision should be, that we are smarter and holier than thou, but the fact remains is that we just don't have all the information in front of us like a manager does.

Any decision that involves Farnsworth, will probably result in failure 60% of the time. That's just my gut talking, I don't have anything factual to support that. That's the sole weak link, IMHO. If he's not in the post-season roster then I think the Yanks chances increase.

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/rnr/427168383.html

19 Well said re: Joe, but couple points about Farnswacker.

- He's not the sole weak link. The bullpen chain is full of them. There are only a few links that are not likely to snap.

- I trust that Joe, at this point, knows Farns can't be trusted to maintain a lead of less than 3 runs. His leash is short.

- As for Farnswacker's place on the postseason roster: think about a scarecrow. They don't really scare crows, but farmers keep them around just because its the thing to do. That's pretty much Kyle's role. Scarecrow.
Boo!

(sing it with me now) "If I only had a brain."

19 I guess, but I still have visions of Weaver giving up the walkoff in 2003 as Mo looked on; the Yankees never bunting on Schilling or sending runners against Varitek as he boxed Wakefield's knuckleball; and the panic the ensued from movig Arod all the way down to 8th when most of the lineup wasn't hitting.

I'd be a lot more confident if I was sure similar lapses in judgment weren't likely to reoccur.

(jordan's is a furniture store that ran a promotion where if you bought stuff from them during april, you'd get it free if the sox won the world series... and i heard someone voicing their concern over their sofa set this morning.)

21 could be worse. we could've had farnsworth AND gagne.

(shudder)

24 I smell LIQUIDATION!!!

Of course, there are a few Yankee fans who (THANK GOD!) don't know about the Banter:
"I mean, what do ya got to say for yourselves? I guess it's all coming out now: you simply hate your betters! Why, you simple shits. Seriously. What the fuck is Boston? A ZERO. Nothing but a white-Irish-trash town, full of "northern rednecks". You clowns. You sad sacks of shit. Pathetically whining at NYC for OBVIOUSLY being the bigger, better city. GET OVER YOURSELVES. Or you will face this same disappointment EVERY YEAR."

Wow. We have it really good here, don't we.
Thanks again, Alex and Cliff.

Think about the reading bonanza we will have!
I mean really, listening to the Nation piss and moan is far more fun then the games themselves. I want the division, but the ONLY thing that will be remembered, for both us and the Sox, is the PS.

But I don't want this to end.

I'm not a cruel man.
I usually don't take pleasure in others pain.
But...
This is toooooo Good!

I like this schadenfraude-flavored ice cream for breakfast >;)

That RSN is still panicking makes it even more funny.

19 23 Those kinds of things scare me too, william, but I wonder if simply having two Mo's (ie Mo and Joba) will cure any bullpen mis-steps.

As for Torre, Tito, and every other manager - when they make a poor move, they ought to be criticized, win or lose. (ie, Weaver pitching instead of Mo in Game 4 of the '03 Serious) When they make a good move, they ought to be praised, win or lose (ie, anytime Mo has come out to pitch in a tie game on the road that the Yanks lost). Its the process that matters, not the outcome - because far more often than not, the right process gives the right outcome.

AL Wildcard:
Yanks - 81.41539
Red Sox - 17.74568
Tigers - .78367
Indians - .00378
M's - .05016
Angels - .00132

AL East:
Red Sox - 82.23770
Yanks - 17.76230

BP Postseason Odds, ELO Version (weighing more recent games more heavily)

AL East:
Red Sox - 67.63300
Yanks - 32.36700

See now, my problem with that statement is you're referring to the crappy sports media, and I take it as an insult that you think the people here are that stupid.

The many of us here who think Torre is a terrible in-game manager will not think "he's a genius" if they win. Winning (or losing) does not justify bonehead decisions (or good ones) -- the decisions are brilliant or stupid because of the facts and the numbers around them, not because one game is won or lost. I think Torre earned a "NoMaas Anti-monkey" on Sunday -- but that doesn't erase the six monkeys he earned prior to that.

As a co-worker of mine (Mets fan) said to me back in June after Torre earned one of those monkeys: "I'll give you one thing -- you've been saying Torre is a lousy manager for several years, even when the Yankees were winning. You didn't just jump on the bandwagon this year."

In any event, could you imagine the Sox being down 1-0 to Kazmir and then looking up on the scoreboard to see the Yankees put a 3-spot on Halladay?

Priceless!

So, so priceless!

Boo!

Gaining another game must get us close to 50%, though, right?

I guess I shouldn't be concerned about these things. But winning the division would just put the dagger in RSN. The Sox themselves it won't bother much.

I can take when the right process (a quality ab, a quality pitching sequence, a good managerial move, etc.) leads to a poor result.

I don't like it, but you know, you tip your hat.

It's when the process is poor that I get crazy.

The latter.

Do you think he's found a swing to go with his bum knee, or do you think his knee's feeling better?

Or perhaps he's just sucking up the pain even more now?

Because he seems to be hitting again, which is really kind of amazing to me.

Couldn't have come at a better time, Derek.

Thank you.

1.) Why do I get a picture in my mind of a guy standing in the same hallway that kid in "The Shining" was standing, except with Jack Nicholson's grin?

2.) "Come Drink With Me"... (which would make a really cool headline if we win the division, yes?)

"All Yankees and no play makes williamnyy23 a dull boy".

Oh...and REDRUM.

the man smells october. he's getting warmed up.

i was beginning to get worried about the guy. his resurgence is a welcome sight, and would be even if we were still 15 games back.

That's the napalm in his cologne >;)

look at what the skipper had to say:
"Ten games, he can probably make five appearances if we want. That's a significant amount. Ten games is a long time. [He could make] probably more appearances than that if you want, because of the days off."

read that again. it made me grin even more upon a second reading.

wow.

I got a call (voice message) from my brother-n-law on Friday. The dope was ragging me about the score;I'll never forgive my sister for marrying a sux fan. I left a return message, he hasn't called me back!

This may not turn out to be quite as good as '78 but it has to be the next best thing right now.

"Francona determined not to give up on Gagné"

Please Mr. Francona, don't ever give up on Gagne, you just keep running that guy on out there.

Francona is like a piromaniac who owns a gas station: "sooooo much oportunity"

I missed your encore last night, wsporter, welcome back! (handshake and much dap!)

of course, I was only 15 in '78 . . .

In 2003, he went to Jeff Weaver, which should always be frowned on, but at the same time, I think all managers in baseball do that. Also, the idea of using Rivera and only having Weaver in the pen with no safety net is terrifying.

In 2006, he was trying something with A-Rod that worked with Giambi three years earlier. It failed. It happens.

33 This gives me a lot of hope. Here's Burnett's pitch count since he came back from injury: 90, 106, 102, 110, 115, 114, 120, 124

Anyone want to bet that he's effective this time out? Me neither.

Icing on the cake? McGowan also threw over 120 pitches in his last start. Victory, thy first name may be Jeter, but thy middle name is 'fatigued pitchers'.