We won the day there were late-80s to early-90s metal references on here, so here goes.

We played like a Girl with a Watering Can last night, and I think we might be Buried by Time and Dust. Hopefully, when The Drapery Falls, we can all stop Sweating Bullets, and take a Champagne Bath.

Fear not folks. Everyone stay calm. Just ran some numbers and figured it out...

Yankees = 90 wins
Seattle = 88 wins
Detroit = 88 or 89 wins

Besides double ee's over double tt's. We're using Delacroy System Statistics this year.

Feel better. Now sleep.

You can totally see Pete Abe in today's Jeter interview:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vLBFlGx2uLY

Also, I'm not worried about Phil at all. The young pitching in the organization has just been too good the past couple years for me not to trust that the people in charge will turn it around.

3 I hope you're right regarding Hughes. I know I foolishly bought into the hyperbole before ever watching him pitch and now feel as though I felt on many a Hannukah night as a child: Hoping against hope for a Shogun Warrior or Imperial Tie Fighter only to be given a package of Hanes plain white briefs.

Age W L ERA ERA+
21 6 14 5.61 77
22 7 17 4.56 81

The first full seasons as starters by Maddux and Glavine. Relax about Hughes--he's 21 y.o. and he's been hurt this year. He'll take some lumps. He'll be fine.

Bloggers and posters around the net are really starting to panic about Hughes, which really is silly. The velocity argument is getting out of control, as Phil's injury and lack of innings can very easily sap power, besides the fact that Hughes has ALWAYS sat 90-94. Then there is the mechanics argument spearheaded by those Gomez articles, except that the mechanical changes, according to Phil, wee made before AA, so that doesn't really work.

I think with Hughes having been built up into a "Phil Hughes has no weaknesses" prospect, people were expecting Johan Santana of 2006 instead of Johan Santana of his first season etc.

The GB/FB issue does trouble me, but not on a long term level. It seems like the game planning has him only throwing 4 seamers and curve balls, and Hughes just doesn't seem to be able to confidently control them...

I was at the game, and it seemed to me that all three home runs Phil gave up came with 2 strikes on the batters. To me, that signals that he's a young pitcher trying to figure out how to put away better hitters than he's faced before. It was a good learning opportunity for him, as he did pitch better later in the game. The problem is, the Yankees cannot afford these types of games anymore.

This game is probably a metaphor for the season: dig a big hole, and mount a comeback that fall just short.

And that Cano shot. Day-um! I lost the ball and was watching Granderson, so I figured it was an out to CF. 431'! Wowzaa.

Off topic, but FireJoeMorgan.com made the NY Times! In reference to the Andy Rooney article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/27/business/media/27rooney.html?ref=baseball
"The column drew immediate criticism in the blogosphere. One sports blog, www.foulballs.net, called Mr. Rooney a "senile idiot," while another, firejoemorgan.com, blasted both "the racism" and "the wrong-ness" of what he wrote. Mary Elson, managing editor for Tribune Media Services, said Mr. Rooney's editor did not think the comment touched Imus territory. "We try to give our columnists a great deal of latitude. This just wasn't considered going over the line," she said."

8 Do people still listen to Andy Rooney? For that matter, do people still watch 60 Minutes?

7 You know you can look those things up. The Granderson inside-the-parker was on a 1-2 count, but the Guillen was on a 3-1 pitch and the Thames was on an 0-1 pitch.

Hughes said after the game that with Guillen he was just trying to get a second strike with a fastball and made a fat pitch as a result. With Thames he said that despite Thames reputation as a good fastball hitter, he didn't appear to do well against his fastball in his first at-bat (four swings: miss, foul, foul, miss = K), so he tried to throw one by him on 0-1 the second time up, but he didn't miss that one.

10 Second to that, if you check out Hughes' splits, hitters have dreadful numbers against him in all two-strike counts except for full counts. He has no problem putting major league hitters away, as his 36 Ks in 38 1/3 IP prove.

After bringing all their considerable talents together to get back into the pennant race, the dream of a division win (which I never seriously thought once they could overtake the Redsox who had an unbelievable start and had enough to tough out any losing streaks) and their chances of getting the WC are slipping away fast. If Mussina has another bad outing tonight I think we'll be dreaming of next April and the Yankee's last season at the House that Ruth Built very shortly. There's just not a lot of baseball left to have games like yesterday or Friday night (the one run games statistics are going to look very bad if they don't make the playoffs). Not that I'll give up hope-I'll be at all the Yankee Redsox games screaming til I'm hoarse.

12 i agree. after this last series against the angels, i took my division championship hopes out to the river, put some concrete flippers on 'em, then pushed them in.

so long.

while the wild card is technically still a possibility, they're going to need to start winning series again. soon. the clock is ticking.

go get 'em, boys.

I'm not worried about Hughes long term -- I think there have just been too many factors messing with him in a season where he's still figuring out how to pitch in the bigs. I was more concerned by the Angels game than yesterday's.

I am however concerned that if we don't get three out of the next four, the season's going to slip away from us. If we get five back of Seattle in the L column this late, it will take an unbelievable run or a collapse. Given that Moose pitches against Verlander today, and the Sux are rolling, three out of the next four seems a difficult task. Here's hoping an extended offensive outburst is on the way...

10 Oh sure, use facts. It did seem like he had a bunch of two strikes on hitters who then got on base. Maybe it was sitting in the sun for a few hours that fried my brain.

3 >>The young pitching in the organization has just been too good the past couple years for me not to trust that the people in charge will turn it around.>>

The past couple of 'years'...? Who, Wang? That's the only guy I can think of who's come through our system in he past couple of 'years'.

And being from Taiwan, he doesn't really count!

I like the fact that the Yanks are trying to win with what they have, rather that trading Hughes or Chamberlin or Kennedy for some Aaron Boone type to get them to the playoffs.

I think they still have a very good shot at the WC, but the division doesn't look promising at all. The Angels and Mariners will beat each other up a little or one will take control. The Tigers and Indians the same. I am looking forward to this last month.

16 Never mind, it's early for me - I thought you meant guys that had actually come up and pitched in the majors..

16 Why doesn't Wang count? He signed as an undrafted free agent at age 20 and spent four full years in the Yankees' minor league system before reaching the majors.

19 He wasn't a 'traditional' prospect is all I meant.

Still, he's the only decent starter out of our system who's spent any significant time in the majors (with the Yankees, anyway) since, well, Andy Pettitte.

I certainly hope Hughes & Joba amend that, though.

13 "while the wild card is technically still a possibility, they're going to need to start winning series again. soon. the clock is ticking."

Man, people really are panicking about the WC. Stop and take a deep breath. The Yankees are two (2, two) games back in the WC, though three (!!!) in the loss column. The Angels and Seattle play each other seven times. The Yankees play the Mariners three times. If the Mariners continue to win every game they play, they will knock the Angels out of the playoffs. Thye will not continue to win every game (as in, they just lost two to Texas).

12 "...and their chances of getting the WC are slipping away fast."

See above, 21 .

20 What does that mean? How does he differ from a Latin American player?

Sort of off topic, but maybe returning to the topic of Hughes...does anyone know where (if anywhere) to find pitch counts for games dating back to the older days (ideally at least the fifties)? Humbug mentioned the record for a nine inning game, which was in the 1950s, so presumably somewhere these totals are on record.

There has been much hand-wringing on various Yankees' sites about Hughes performance, with some commenting on how the team has 'babied' its young pitchers. We tend to focus on innings or CG when comparing pitchers in different eras, but has anyone charted pitch totals for starters in different era?

21 i'll take that breath if moose can toss a solid game tonight. we need more than just pettitte and wang pitching well. (if wang can replicate his last start or something similar.)

Andy Rooney said: "I know all about Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig, but today's baseball stars are all guys named Rodriguez to me"

Is this the horrible, racist thing he said?
There are indeed many latino players in MLB, especially compared to 25 years ago.

We are getting VERY 'sensitive' as a society. I see ethnic comedians making fun of their own ethnicity, and people in the audience are crying with laughter.

It seems to me that ANYTHING that is said that references a persons race/ethnicity is up for being considered racist.

Remember when Dusty said he thought black players tolerated the heat better? He, a black man, was questioned as being as racist.
Aren't people who originate from hot climates black, as a natural, evolutionary defense against the sun?

I don't get it. There is still REAL racism in this world. Real hatred. People who honestly want other people dead or gone. Why are we so focused on such innocuous statements? Is this to avoid a real dialog about real racism?

25 Things will be much clarified in about a week. Yeah, I know that's obvious on one level (more games played, fewer games left, more clarity). Still, by next Thursday the Yankees will have faced the Sox and the M's, and the Mariners will have faced the Angels and the Yankees.

Then we can panic (or not).

26 "Aren't people who originate from hot climates black, as a natural, evolutionary defense against the sun?"

actually, if i recall a lecture i attended last year correctly, an argument has been made that the melanin that carries pigmentation can block certain UV rays that would be harmful to pregnancy.

It's the inherent racism in the statement by an old crotchety white guy. He doesn't like baseball, but he liked it more as a kid, now it's just a bunch of ethnics that he can't relate to.

It's not something to hang him for, but it reinforces many peoples' belief that Andy Rooney isn't relative to any kind of conversation these days.

It's not overt racism by any means, but it's just as there.

26 Now you've done it...

26 I'm no Rooney fan, but I read his "all guys named Rodriguez to me" comment simply as a play on "it's all Greek to me."

23 Please stop trying to bait me. You know what I mean.

26 ,30 Yawwwn... Andy Rooney is, like a good number of Americans, old and set in his ways. The difference being that he has a long-standing platform to espouse his views; by this time his age, target demograph and mostly his reputation (crochety old geezer) have taken much of the seriousness out of many (if not all) of his statements.

The racism that makes a difference is from people who effect policy and hold a strong influence on a large segment of public opinion, who are therefore held to a standard of responsibility. If anything, we should be getting on advertisers and network programmers who promote sexist or racist images in segmented neighborhoods (proliferation of alcohol ads featuring sexually suggestive models located in minority neighborhoods) or the subliminal suggestion that minority environments or minority citizens either endure or are largely involved in crime (everyday evening news).

Andy Rooney has as much authority on various opinions as those people who rant on call-in radio shows, only he's able to do it on TV and most people at least chuckle. I say, let that pass; otherwise you give him more veracity than he deserves.

28 Which is why only African WOMEN are black? And why when a white man moves to a sunny climate, his skin darkens?

However, that study may well be correct. Mother Nature is very complex is her design. Possibly some climates don't have enough sun to cross that threshold, but some do... so it is yet another marvelous environmental/evolutionary protection.

However #2: There is still so much we don't know. Since we have recently 'broken' the gene, we will be learning lots of interesting new things soon. Based on what we observe and know now, you can't always make a definitive statement. At the same time, you can't necessarily rule out said definitive statement.

29 I will confess, that as a Jew, I probably take a little more pride in the accomplishments of Israel, and Jews throughout history, then I do other cultures, and non-Jews.
Does this make me a racist?
Does 'rooting' for your 'own tribe' make you racist?
Does prefering the company of your 'own tribe' make you racist?
Is is possible that these feelings are evolutionary/instinctual, and simply part of the grand design?

34 Can we stop? I second 33 's yawn. We've had this discussion with Sheffield, and we've had it with Bonds. Let's not go down this path with...Andy Rooney?

How about this:

Hughes sucks. His velocity is down. I say he's a bust.

I'm not so worried about Hughes yet, but as Cliff said the only real thing that has me worried is his tipping towards flyball/HR tendencies. Is minor league track record says he'll turn that back around, and I have to believe the velocity will come back a bit (I mean he's only 2-3mph off what he was throwing last year) and can easily be explained by injury/lack of pitching.

As for the team's prospects, against the Angels they performed about how I expected them too. Look the Mariners had Minnesota and Texas, and we had the Angels and Tigers. You have to expect the possibility of dropping a game or two in the standings. As for the Red Sox, well I think I could single handedly beat the ChiSox right now. Lets see how they are after the Sox/D-Rays series.

34 i am not an expert. i am still studying these things. the study took into account populations of people who were somehow known to have lived in the same areas for centuries. this had little to do with migration. and yes, the trait was shown to protect a foetus, but most genetic traits are passed to both sexes from their parents, so men would carry this in their genes as well.

my only point was only that dusty baker's theory wasn't supported by at least a portion of the scientific community. the selection pressure is believed to be on the success rate of pregnancies, as opposed to exposure to heat. (but i'm sure that there could be another study that stands in exact opposition to this... that can happen.)

i didn't mean for that to be taken as scientific fact, though. just a theory.

BTW, funny as hell post at FJM. I heard that Kay comment and was also like, "You sir, are a moron!"

The gist of it, is that Kay pointed out how much lower Wang's ERA was out of the windup versus the stretch. Whereas any idiot can see the only earned runs Wang can give up out of the windup are solo home runs. Sooo...Kay basically pointed out that Wang gives up way fewer runs on solo HRs than all other methods combined. Who woulda thunk?

Why are we worried about Hughes? Let's be real, he's 21, has missed 2+ months due to leg injuries which have affected his base and possibly his mechanics subtly, and he's not helped by the coaching or lack-thereof at the major league level. He will regain the 2-3 mph on his fastball and will revive his changeup (which hinges on the first item) next season if not by the end of this season. All's well. He will be as good as advertised.

Who's worried about Hughes?

38 Yeah, that was amazing. The actual stat he quoted was Wang's ERA with the bases empty vs. with runners on. And boo on Al Leiter for not pointing out what was wrong with that.

40 I am, kinda. Although time will tell.

He's no Jeff Karstens, that's for sure. But he definitely needs a better pitching coach than Gator, IMO.

32 I'm not trying to bait you. I honestly have no idea what you mean, because there is no developmental difference between Wang and, say, Mariano Rivera, who signed with the Yankees at the same age.

41 Maybe tonight he'll tell us how much better a hitter Derek Jeter is with runners on base, since he has way more RBIs with people on base than with the bases empty. Then he'll say Derek is clutch.

42 Maybe he just needs Nardi to show up during a few of his throw days. Conteras really seems to know his stuff.

35 Is correct. I will leave 37 et al, with a simple thought.
Maybe it's true.
Maybe it's not.
Maybe Dusty was 'right'.
Maybe Dusty was 'wrong'.
My point is: WHO CARES?
My real point is that whether he is wrong or right (whatever that is), why does taking one of those 2 positions make him (or anyone else) a racist?

Hughes will be a #1 or #2. His velocity is fine for his age and situation. I say he's a big part of our future.

The funny thing is, players like DiMaggio and Rizzuto -- from way back when, when Andy Rooney kinda liked baseball, caught grief for being Italians. I didn't really think he was being racist, there is A-Rod, I-Rod, K-Rod, -- can we please stop with the -Rods now. What gets me is Rooney's "I never cared about baseball." OK, then don't write about it at all.

Hughes will be fine. The first homer I'll put down to Matsui not being a particularly good fielder. He gave up four hits, one walk, and had six strikeouts in six innings. Really, just two bad pitches. Not the fi