Baseball Toaster: Bronx Banter : It's Not the Size of the Moose in the Fight . . .

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P. Hughes BR BP BC E mi
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J. Chamberlain BR BP BC E
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J. Veras BR BP BC E mi
E. Ramirez BR BP BC E mi
B. Bruney BR BP BC E mi
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It's Not the Size of the Moose in the Fight . . .

2007-07-25 12:50

by Cliff Corcoran

The Yankees need to win just one of these final two games in Kansas City to stay on target by taking three of four from the Royals. Unfortunately, they'll have to do it with the weak back end of their rotation. Mike Mussina, who takes the ball tonight, is better than the disaster outing he had last time out in the series opener against Tampa Bay, but not by as much as he'd like to think. He has a 4.97 ERA on the season and a 4.71 ERA over his last five starts. He's very clearly the Yankees' number-four starter at this point, and his delicate diva act is getting old fast (and I say that as someone who finds his post-game churlishness hilarious and oddly endearing).

Before his last start, I reported that Mussina had a 3.40 ERA and a 1.20 WHIP in 11 starts with Wil Nieves behind the plate and a 9.00 ERA and 1.89 WHIP in four starts with Jorge Posada behind the plate (one of them being his injury-shortened outing in Minneapolis in April). That night, Moose was caught by Posada and gave up six runs in 4 2/3 innings pushing his Posada ERA to 9.53 and WHIP to 1.94. Well, Nieves is gone and Posada will be behind the plate again tonight, so Moose had better crank up his way back machine and remember how he turned in Cy Young-worthy seasons pitching to Posada in 2001 (3.15 ERA, 1.07 WHIP) and 2003 (3.40 ERA, 1.08 WHIP). Or, better yet, remember that it was Posada's advice on his changeup that stimulated a last gasp of brilliance early last season (2.42 ERA, 0.95 WHIP through the end of May (he might want to thank Jorge for his current two-year, $23-million deal while he's at it).

Whatever it takes, it sure would be nice not to have to rely on Kei Igawa's high-wire act for that third win of the series. Further complicating the issue, however, is the fact that the Yankees will face the Royals best pitcher tonight, the maybe-not-so-overpaid-after-all Gil "Ga!" Meche. Meche has gone 7-6 with a 3.63 ERA (130 ERA+) for a team playing .434 baseball, and very much deserved his All-Star selection. Then again, Meche has been coming back to earth over the last two months, posting a 4.50 ERA in June and July and a 5.40 ERA in his last six starts (yet somehow going 3-0 over that same six-start stretch). Still, Meche held the major leagues' best offense to two runs on five hits and no walks over seven innings in his last outing, which took place in Detroit as the Royals romped to a 10-2 win over the Central Division leaders, and in his only outing against the Yankees last year held the Bombers to two runs on five hits and a walk in six innings while striking out six.

Things have been easy for the Yankees over the last five games. That will likely change tonight. Here's hoping they can reignite that fighting spirit they displayed in last week's Toronto series.

Comments (592)

Show/Hide Comments 1-50

2007-07-25 14:09:05

1. aronneil

I both have great respect for and groan deeply at your Gil "Ga!" Meche reference.

I'm going to spend the rest of the day trying to come up with an "Utnapishtim" joke.

2007-07-25 14:15:45

2. JL25and3

The problem is, in Kansas City the lights are oriented at a slightly different angle than Mussina is accustomed to. If there's a lady in a green t-shirt sitting directly behind home plate he might be OK, but not if she's sitting next to a guy wearing a George Brett replica jersey.

Wait a minute, it's Wednesday, not Tuesday. That means she has to be wearing a blue shirt. And the grass had better be mowed from right to left.

The most important factor is the wind. Mussina is but mad north-northwest; when the wind is southerly, he knows a hawk from a handsaw.

2007-07-25 14:16:58

3. JL25and3

1 My sister came up with that one three or four years ago. I was most proud of her.

2007-07-25 14:19:07

4. yankz

What's the over/under on how many posts until this turns into another "debate" about the value of statistics and Randy Johnson? I say 28.

GIVE EM HELL, BOYS

2007-07-25 14:23:24

5. Zack

4 Well, since you brought it up already, I saw its too late, and, continuing my theme from the last thread: it doesnt matter, as all threads are always already implicated in said discussion-Ergo, the number you seek cannot be articulated, as it exceeds the limits of the system...

2007-07-25 14:24:01

6. Zack

And on another note, I can remember seeing Meche twice a few years ago where he totally dominate the Yanks, it made for two really really crappy games

2007-07-25 14:26:06

7. tommyl

6 Just remember, I was at last Friday's game. Now that was crappy.

2007-07-25 14:27:28

8. tommyl

2 Also, I hear this morning's crossword threw him off a bit.

2007-07-25 14:28:51

9. rsmith51

When is Molina catching? I figured that he would catch in the blowout of be Moose's personal catcher. Any info on this, Cliff?

2007-07-25 14:30:10

10. yankz

Bobby Abreowulf?

2007-07-25 14:33:56

11. Cliff Corcoran

9 He'll catch Igawa tomorrow from what I understand.

2007-07-25 14:34:13

12. Cliff Corcoran

10 Scott Baiowulf?

2007-07-25 14:40:59

13. Bama Yankee

12 Nice.

2007-07-25 14:41:19

14. JL25and3

10 Ooh, I like that. Now we've got a team, I'm just not sure what to call it. I suppose it could just be the Ancient Epic team, as long as we agree that simply hitting a Homer isn't enough to qualify.

2007-07-25 14:42:56

15. Shaun P

5 Is that Meta-physical Philosophy, or Meta-philosophical Physics? I have a hard time telling them apart; I always forget which one includes Schrödinger's GM.

You all know that one, don't you? No? OK, I'll explain it then. When Brian Cashman is trapped in a box, and he'll die if he doesn't make a good trade getting rid of Randy Johnson, depending on who looks in the box when, Cashman is either alive, or dead, or both, or neither.

Don't think about it too much though, it makes one's head hurt.

2007-07-25 14:47:53

16. JL25and3

7 I'll claim the Chad Gaudin game as the most boring game in the history of the world. A man standing next to the dugout, reciting the Epic of Gilgamesh in the original Akkadian, would have been far more interesting than anything that happened in the game. In fact, if he'd just been sitting there reading the book to himself, it still would have been more interesting.

2007-07-25 14:50:35

17. JL25and3

5 So...you're telling me that what you've learned in grad school is nothing, which is in fact something in its nothingness, since nothingness cannot exist unless there is also somethingness?

2007-07-25 14:54:04

18. Jim Dean

4 And here I was helping you reach the Excel skills of a sixth grader in the last thread.

2007-07-25 14:55:12

19. tommyl

16 Not boring, physically painful last Friday's game was. And there I go talking like Yoda.

2007-07-25 14:55:53

20. Jim Dean

Back to the Damon-Matsui swaperoo.

Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Matsui DH
Posada C
Cano 2B
Phillips 1B
Cabrera CF

2007-07-25 15:05:10

21. RIYank

For anyone who's read Philip Roth's The Great American Novel, the 'Gil Ga Meche' joke is just impossible not to think about.

And everyone should. Read it.

2007-07-25 15:07:43

22. Bama Yankee

12 Jarrod SaltalaJoanieLovesChachia?

2007-07-25 15:14:16

23. Mattpat11

Meche has to come back to earth at some point. Why not tonight?

And I have a good feeling about Mussina. Somewhere in there, the Hall of Fame pitcher still lurks. Why not tonight?

2007-07-25 15:20:26

24. Marcus

22 Careful, you're treading in Chris Berman territory on that one...

2007-07-25 15:27:21

25. Bama Yankee

24 Good point. Forget I mentioned it...
Is there a Back, Back, Back, Back button I could use to erase that post?

2007-07-25 15:32:46

26. Cliff Corcoran

22 Jarron Saltyralphmacchio

2007-07-25 15:34:08

27. Cliff Corcoran

26 damnit! Jarrod, of course.

2007-07-25 15:35:01

28. yankz

18 I didn't say you'd start it.

PS Not everyone's out to get you. You don't have to be a condescending douche all the time.

PPS Thanks, I'll try that now.

2007-07-25 15:35:38

29. yankz

25 Ha!

2007-07-25 16:10:48

30. randym77

I suppose this means Shelley's headed back to Scranton...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2948878

2007-07-25 16:16:33

31. yankz

Damon in LF and leading off, Matsui at DH tonight.

2007-07-25 16:20:33

32. Cliff Corcoran

30 Eventually, sure, but so what?

2007-07-25 16:28:22

33. rilkefan

32 Is "eventually" next week? Is Giambi in the short run a better option for the team, esp. given his handedness?

2007-07-25 16:34:41

34. Cliff Corcoran

You can't honestly think that Shelley Duncan is a better DH option than a healthy Jason Giambi.

2007-07-25 16:36:58

35. yankz

Playing Damon in LF/DH and letting Melky patrol CF was a huge step for Joe. I don't see him benching Damon when Melky gets back though, which would be a damn shame.

2007-07-25 16:44:53

36. Jim Dean

34 Dude hit 3 homeruns in his first 12 at-bats!

2007-07-25 16:46:15

37. yankz

Er, 35 should read when Giambi gets back, but you already got that.

2007-07-25 16:52:28

38. Marcus

36 So are you saying it's up for debate, or that Duncan is a better option than Giambi?

2007-07-25 16:54:38

39. JL25and3

I think it's extremely possible that the Yankees have gotten just about as much out of Shelley Duncan as they're going to get.

2007-07-25 16:57:20

40. Jim Dean

38 Isn't it obvious?

Shel-ly Dun-can. [clap clap, clap-clap-clap]
Shel-ly Dun-can. [clap clap, clap-clap-clap]
Shel-ly Dun-can. [clap clap, clap-clap-clap]

2007-07-25 16:58:19

41. rilkefan

34 "a healthy Jason Giambi"

Do you have some special information showing that that's what we're getting in the short term I noted?

2007-07-25 16:59:24

42. Marcus

40 It's very clear now.

2007-07-25 16:59:46

43. JL25and3

35 I wouldn't be so sure; I don't see him benching Melky at this point. Seriously, and I know it's Joe. I think Melky has picked up some real warriortude points, and Damon's appearances have been cut a little.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Joe go into one of his largely random, quasi-platoon systems. That's where he rotates people in and out for a week or three at a time, with no apparent rhyme or reason.

2007-07-25 17:02:20

44. JL25and3

41 A mostly healthy Giambi is still a better option than Shelley Duncan, unless the "short term" is last weekend.

2007-07-25 17:02:33

45. Cliff Corcoran

41 There's no real reason to rush him back if he's not going to hit, so I trust that if he's back, he's healthy. All reports have been good and Giambi seems impressed by his own progress.

2007-07-25 17:08:35

46. Schteeve

I think Jason Giambi can put up a .380 OBP with his eyes closed, on account of his baseball repelling exoskeleton.

2007-07-25 17:09:39

47. Mattpat11

Joe benched Bernie Williams for Melky last year. I can see him making time for him this year

2007-07-25 17:09:51

48. Yankee Fan in Chicago

Joba w/ 9 k's thru 4 in his 1st Scranton start.

2007-07-25 17:14:12

49. Schteeve

If Meche loses the plate, he tends to lose it big time. That's the one thing I like in this matchup.

2007-07-25 17:14:22

50. Yankee Fan in Chicago

Scranton's in a rain delay now, so I suspect Joba's done for the night since he threw 74 pitches -- 4 hits and one walk to go along with the 9 ks.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100

2007-07-25 17:15:20

51. Cliff Corcoran

46 Indeed.

2007-07-25 17:15:22

52. rilkefan

45 "There's no real reason to rush him back if he's not going to hit"

Hmm, not sure I trust the Yankees to act entirely rationally or Giambi to correctly assess his own progress.

2007-07-25 17:16:52

53. Hocakes

C'mon, boys, make that Meche contract look bad!

2007-07-25 17:17:02

54. Mattpat11

49 Like I said earlier, the thing I like about this is Meche has historically been no good, and this season should adjust soon.

2007-07-25 17:21:24

55. rbj

Nerts.

2007-07-25 17:22:04

56. Mattpat11

Well here we go

2007-07-25 17:22:05

57. Schteeve

I have this fantasy that when Meche got his ridiculous contract, he felt guilty so he worked on his approach so that he wouldn't let his employer down.

2007-07-25 17:24:07

58. Schteeve

Holy Jesus, Mussina's BAA is higher than Farnsworth's!!

2007-07-25 17:24:24

59. Mattpat11

That 86 mph fastball looks so hittable.

2007-07-25 17:25:22

60. RIYank

So is his fastball over? I have no idea. Somebody tell.

2007-07-25 17:26:18

61. SpoonG91

58 That's no easy task.

2007-07-25 17:26:29

62. Zack

Gosh I really fear the thought of Joe Torre abusing Joba in the BP...

15 Nice...Meta-physical Philosophy of course, as Schrödinger's GM is inherently impossible because of the infinite potential of available better prospects, implying that no matter the situation or variables, the outcome is always already the death of Cashman--aka, it doesn't matter, the trade, by definition, will always be worse than the trade-should-have-been-made.
17 Duh...
16 I actually think a man standing next to the dugout reciting the Epic would be quite fascinating, if only for the pure randomness of it, and the fact that no one around him would probably have any idea of what was occurring...

2007-07-25 17:26:48

63. SpoonG91

Curve en fuego

2007-07-25 17:26:53

64. RIYank

Well, he certainly has good control in general.

2007-07-25 17:26:55

65. Mattpat11

Ball one was in the same spot as strike one. I don't particularly think either was a strike, but lets be consistent.

2007-07-25 17:27:15

66. Schteeve

The curve looks pretty good so far.

2007-07-25 17:28:34

67. Schteeve

I don't like that Moose is sassin' the ump already.

2007-07-25 17:28:53

68. weeping for brunnhilde

That 1-1 was a fucking strike.

Fucking ump.

2007-07-25 17:28:59

69. Mattpat11

Singleton has been surfing BR.com

2007-07-25 17:29:35

70. RIYank

I think the strike zone is small, for both pitchers.

How are we ever going to trust umpires now that the NBA has screwed everything up? What if someone bet on the 'over' this game?

2007-07-25 17:29:43

71. yankz

Good grief, Jeter already got a hit? What a machine

2007-07-25 17:30:42

72. Chyll Will

62 I do that kind of thing around here all the time. Who's fascinated??

2007-07-25 17:31:17

73. yankz

If what you guys are saying about the strike zone is true, Moose is about to collapse.

70 I wish I could believe that baseball has learned its lesson since Rose, but alas...

2007-07-25 17:31:53

74. Zack

72 I am. But of course, you're not doing it in yankee stadium at the dugout, which takes away a lot of the impact...

2007-07-25 17:32:24

75. weeping for brunnhilde

70 I wouldn't know about that. I just walked in, and that was the first pitch I saw.

Just thought I'd flap my yap; the Saranac, you know.

2007-07-25 17:32:48

76. rbj

70 I always figured that baseball is too tough to fix the over/under.

2007-07-25 17:32:55

77. SpoonG91

Gil Meche has some serious pitches!!!

2007-07-25 17:32:56

78. vockins

How much of a Yankee fan am I?

My two and a half year old daughter speaks along with the voiceovers in the Select Dental and StubHub ads.

2007-07-25 17:33:48

79. weeping for brunnhilde

"I don't think he's ever going to learn the strike zone."

Joe on Robbie.

2007-07-25 17:33:49

80. yankz

Fear not, Meche has thrown more balls than strikes. Punish him, BB Cano!

2007-07-25 17:35:31

81. Chyll Will

74 "I would if the price was right..." >;) And what's so un-holy and non-Traditional/Historical about the cyberspace of Banter??

2007-07-25 17:36:01

82. RIYank

If only he could learn the strike zone. Oh well. He's doomed to have at-bats like that one.

2007-07-25 17:36:41

83. weeping for brunnhilde

78 That's more an illustration of your being a fan of commercials!

Sorry, I'm an enemy of commercials.

Nice hitting, Robbie!

2007-07-25 17:37:41

84. 51cq24

70 purposely or not, umpires are influencing the game with wrong calls every day. its time to move on.

2007-07-25 17:38:20

85. RIYank

Leche!

2007-07-25 17:38:20

86. weeping for brunnhilde

I think Melky's performance is going to go through the roof when his body fills out.

2007-07-25 17:38:36

87. weeping for brunnhilde

Ha!

How 'bout that?

Leche!

2007-07-25 17:38:47

88. rbj

Melky!
C'mon guys I want 10+ runs tonight

2007-07-25 17:38:54

89. Mattpat11

That's what I like.

I won't like it when Moose gives up