Pete Abe had me until:
"This is why you can't judge coaches on statistics every time. How they relate to a player sitting on the couch at 3:45 p.m. can be just as important as what happens later. Wang is already a heck of a pitcher and it has a lot to do with moments like these."

Ummmm, whaaa?

Totally unrelated question: has anyone seen or taken recent pictures of the new stadium construction progress? I know that yankeetradtion.com posted some pics a week ago, but stadiumpage.com and yankees.com haven't been updated in over a month. The NYC Parks' Yankee Stadium Redevelopment pages haven't been updated in over a year. I don't know of any other decent new stadium sites or blogs.

1 Are you implying that locker room banter is not nearly as important as imparting baseball knowledge in game situations? C'mon, Zach.

I did think it was a good anecdote, though. Nice to know that Wang has really found a niche in the clubhouse.

2 mp, I conceded your point on the other thread. As I say there: substitute "Wil Nieves" for "Kevin Thompson" and I have a much stronger case. Just pretend that's what I said to begin with.

I work a few blocks from the Stadium - but to the south, so I don't really see the construction much. If I remember, I'll try to swing by and take some pictures.

1, 3 Yeah, I always thought Wang was a heck of a pitcher because he got guys out and didn't give up many runs. I never realized that it was because he relates well sitting on the couch at 3:45 PM.

Thanks to Pete Abe, I now understand better.

4 Thanks! (BTW, I saw your post on the last thread--thanks for the kind words. Yeah, the bench is sore spot with me too.)

2 mp, the most recent pics of the construction were on:
http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/future/YankeeStadiumII.htm
in the lower left corner.
Hope that helps.

{2] 4 I don't want to hijack this thread into a new Yankee Stadium debate (Ipersonally am relatively ambivalent about the new stadium), but this is one of those cases where the organization reveals just how fan unfriendly it can be. I don't understand why they don't post regular updates and pictures, or in some way elicit (constructive) fan suggestions for the project. I don't know, just make the process more interactive and built fan excitement, rather than so much secrecy. Maybe I'm naive about these things.

8 Ha ha ha a ha ha ha ha ha!! mp!

That's a good one, tell another!

9 I sense sarcasm...

; )

8 My favorite example of how icily fan-unfriendly the Yankees can be: last year I sat through a rain delay, and sat, and sat, and sat, for something like 3:40.

By the time they started playing again there was only an inning or so left to play, and maybe 5000 fans left in the stands. Most of those few fans had moved down to better seats, to the upper boxes or the back of the lower deck.

But not the front part, where the corporate boxes were. They had security people standing at every single aisle, making sure that the riff-raff didn't get to put their cooties on those seats. It was actually a ludicrous sight, because there were a lot of people in the back half, but the front was completely empty, a great big Fuck You from the Yankees.

That's the kind of gratuitous slap that really lets you know how they feel. Would it have killed them to tell the security guys to go get a cup of coffee? Wouldn't it be worth it to make the super-loyal fans a tiny bit happy?

But that's not the Yankee way.

11 My favorite example is when they jacked up the price of beer to the point where the cost of a six-pack rivals my monthly rent. And two hot dogs cover my gas bill. But who's counting. Gotta pay for that fan un-friendly stadium somehow.

Note about the new Yankee Stadium and rain delays - the upper deck no longer sits above he mid decks, it's behind it, so all of the lower boxes are going to be exposed to rain - no more hiding under the overhangs.

11 Yeah, that's abominable.

It was so different when I was a kid. I remember routinely going down to those box seats and never having had a problem.

It's as if they don't realize the cost of cultivating lifelong, diehard fans.

The other cataclysmic thing they did was to take the games off of channel 11. I fell away from baseball for many years between early high school and young adulthood for a number of reasons, but one of them was undoubtedly the fact that they stopped televising the games and we didn't have Sportschannel.

Man, I haven't thought about my hatred for sportschannel in a long time, I used to HATE when games were on that. Whatever happened to it?

Heck, I remember walking up to this one guy at the ticket booth right before the game and getting front row seats that hadn't been sold for like $20! That was as recently as '95...

Which I suppose is over ten years ago now...sigh...

16 Wow, Zack, you did that when you were 5?

I was also at the playoff game that got rained out last year. Never mind that they herded us all in there and made us wait when the probably already knew that the game would have to be canceled. I expected that, so it was just par for the course.

But when they did call the game, they didn't announce it in the Stadium until an hour or two after they announced it on ESPN. That was unforgivable.

10 I used to think the same thing, but I think he really is as happy-go-lucky as he appears >;)

I'm beginning to think that the unfriendliness has become status quo with the Yankees; perhaps a holdover or related to local politics, but for whatever the reason it is I am beginning to lose my interest in the team in general. Considering how they treated Bernie (I wanted him gone, but not in the way they did it), they've jeopardized the makeup of not only the current team, but for the next several years to come with the attitude they portray towards players in general. Posada is rightfully skeptical about what kind of treatment he can expect once his time is up, and seeing how they've basically painted themselves into a corner with A-Rod, you have to wonder what other available players are willing to believe or accept.

All that to say this: the Yanks have been going in the wrong direction for some time, so none of this should come as any surprise. Believe it or not, I think Cashman is probably better suited for Randy Levine's job. As for Torre, well, he's got his place in history, maybe he could be Cash's assistant. If not, Memorial Park, here we come (and do it correctly this time, or I'm truly out.)

(cricket, cricket...)

I've been beating the fan-unfriendliness-of-the-Yankees drum for awhile now. That the team isn't doing well only makes the experience even more sour. Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who's gotten that impression. Well, not glad exactly -- sad is more like it, but at least I know it's not just something that's entirely localized in my mind. Thanks for reminding me that I'd left the Division Series rain delay off my personal laundry list of evil -- that one really drove me nuts.

In a way the Yankees' recent mistreatment of fans parallels the anti-marketing MLB has done during the Bud regime. It's also a product of the fact that NYY attendance has gone up so sharply over the past several years-- up 88 percent since '96 and 23 percent since 2003. The sad thing is that the combination of the last year of the current stadium and the honeymoon effect of the new one virtually ensure that the Yanks will be insulated from having to account for this shoddiness for at least another five years.

It's pretty maddening. But it's worth mentioning often -- sooner or later that might get through the thick arrogant skulls of somebody up there.

BTW, did anyone else notice that MLB has come roaring back after the All Star break? I mean 15 series going on right now, and only two of them (SEA-DET and SD-ARI) involve two teams with winning records. Ugh. Talk about 'Splat'.

21 I'm hoping that the new stadium will lead however accidentally to a more fan friendly experience. You're completely correct that the fan unfirendliness is linked greatly to the sharp rise in attendance; that won't change for years. However, in my experience in other new ballparks (like Jacob's Field), even when sold out the fan experience is better because the facilities are simply designed better.

This will probably bring out some angry responses, but some a good bit of the unpleasantness at Yankee Stadium is generated by the cramped concourses, cramped bathroooms, cramped parking, clogged access to and from the park, etc. The present facility was simply not designed to handle 50,000+ every game. Moreover, there is little incentive for the organization to let fans linger around before or after the game.

But when I have been to, for example, Jacob's Field or Comerica Park, the problems of people flow have been greatly alleviated (including hen I went to the Jake during that big run of sell outs). There is also plenty of incentive for those organizations to keep fans within the confines of the structures because they have built so many retail and food facilities within the gates.

Basically, I'm hoping that the situation at the new Stadium will be better, even if it is only accidental by-product of Steinbrenner's greed or whatever. It certainly will not be any worse.

23 MP, part of that cramping issue could be extended to how the Yanks simply insulate themselves from the community. Let's face it, the streets around the stadium are few people's idea of Nirvana, nevermind an attraction worth experiencing. The only reason most people come to the area is to watch the Yanks. There's no other reason in that area for them to be there. And as far as the team is concerned, that's either justification for them to move/rebuild, or to ignore the area altogether. In turn, the residents are very resentful of the Yanks and the antagonism they feel about the team building a new stadium in a park they used very often. Now, the team is very involved to a certain extent with community events and charities, they are all very low-profile. Perhaps if they took a cue from the Mets and announced their participation in neighborhood or borough-wide projects, then there would be more give and take on both sides.

Yankee Stadium is not an oil rig in the Middle East, but let's face it, they don't have a positive opinion of the Bronx either, and neither do many of the fans. Thus the crowding.

Tim McCarver and Ken Rosenthal were musing on the Fox broadcast of the Dodgers-Giants game that the Dodgers were interested in acquiring either Proctor or Bruney.

I'm not sure why this is so.

25 Maybe Grady Little thinks the Dodgers' staff isn't walking enough batters, so he needs to bring in hired guns from the East Coast?

23 Yes, the new Stadium will have better access, wider arcades, better and more varied food, and so on. That will make driving, walking and eating better, albeit considerably more expensive.

Unfortunately, when it comes to watching the game, many of the ordinary fans will find that they've been rather literally marginalized. As someone pointed out earlier, the upper deck has been moved back quite a bit. Also, instead of the vertiginous pitch of the current upper deck, it will have a much more gentle slope.

The effect of all this is that the best seats in the upper deck will be substantially further away from the field than they are now, and the less-than-best seats will be a long, long way off. I suspect we'll find that they've pretty well killed the upper deck.

Of course, they'll also put more of the field level seats in the sun, and there won't be anymore overhang to get in the way of the luxury boxes. We wouldn't want that, no sir.

Someone told me that there will also be significantly fewer seats in the upper deck, and that they'll be replaced by more seats at field level. Great, so that means they'll be adding crappy seats at the back of the lower deck. Whoopee.

Not that it matters much. I'm not expecting to be able to get seats anymore in any event. I'll enjoy this season and next while I can.

27 Good points, but I think the fears about the upper deck have been exaggerated by angry fans. I go to YS every year, and I haven't come close to sitting anywhere except the back of the upper deck in years. For many of us, we won't really be any further from the action than we have been.

I've sat in the upper decks in the some new parks and found that the greater distance from the action was more than comepensated for by the far superior sight lines. Again, I'm referrign to my own experience; those who have season tickets in the lower tier at YS will no doubt lose out.

And I think that you absolutely correct about the atmosphere. The new stadium will simply not have the same dynamic. That is the natural product of changing the architectural space.

27 28 To continue--I haven't sat in the lower deck in YS in at least ten years. I haven't sat in the loge in probably twenty years. I really wouldn't mind so much sitting in 'crappy' seasts in the back of the lower level. Again, I am referring to my own experience and expectations; I'm not making an overall evaluation.

not a very good start

Wow, this sucks. Back later.

Hmmm. Stinky game, no banter. I'm off to dinner.

At least the Thunders are doing good..

Yikes. Down by 3 already? Against the worst team in baseball???

For those of you with Comcast Cable - Joba is on their channel right now - 5 K through 4 IP at 51 pitches.

Poor Andy Phillips, just not enough guts to get that ball out.

First time I've watched Joba. Phenomenal is the key word. Power fastball to all corners. Hard slider. And a decent breaking pitching. If he's not up by next June, I'll be shocked.

6 IP 0 R 1 BB 8 K - retired 11 in a row at one point.

37 Wow... How many hits did he give up?

Hi y'all,
Hey... is there another thread you're not telling me about? 39 comments? Must be a good party in the Village.

Meanwhile, the Yanks have done well to come back, and Wanger has managed to hold the fort. Looking for 3 out of 4.

38 Totals for Joba:

7 IP 3 H 0 R 1 BB 9 K - about 90 pitches

He looked just as advertised.

40 Jesus... looks like we've got at least one solid arm that we're building up in the minors.

39 I wasn't around, but it looks like Wang has been great since the first... 1 hit, no runs over the next five frames. Not too shabby at all.

Oh, shit. Villone time.

Villone the invincible!!!!

Wow, that was something.

Where is everyone? It's 9:30 in NYC, still too early to be out partying...right?!?

Not too early to be home for the night in Boston....

Posada stole a base? o_O

D'oh, Farns! What the hell did Edwar do to Torre?

Oh, No! - Krazy Kyle time.....He got the lead-off man.....Could this be his 4th 1-2-3 inning for the season??

49 Nope.

Seriously, why does he keep pitching the 8th?

49 Ha! Not quite.

49 Well that was a frigging jinx.

And Kombustable Kyle wonders why he's on a short leash out there with Mariano behind him. What a joke.

I just can not bear to watch Kyle pitch.

If someone else gets on, Torre will make a change... right?

meh... as long as Joe doesn't bring Farns in with less than a 2 run lead, we're okay.

Like most teams have that hard-throwing 8th inning guy to get to the closer... we have that 8th inning 'will give up runs until it's a save situation (unless it already is and then still give up 1, minimum)' guy

54 Wrong... here's Guidry to try to calm him down before he serves up the go-ahead blast.

People keep asking why Myers is on this team if he can only pitch to one batter... Why is Kyle on this team if he can't pitcht to ANYONE?!

17 more days until the deadline, I hope they trade him.

I've had it. I'm cheering for the Devil Rays.

It must be in Kyle's contract that he issue at least 1 BB every appearance.

I think this is the passive agressive approach by Torre to get him off the team. I can't believe he wouldn't go to Mo here.

Thank god for Posada. That's all I can say.

and Posada saves the game.

Part of the reason I get upset with Brian Cashman is I had for years, been told he was smarter than the average bear in the GM field.

When I watch him not only sign Kyle Farnsworth, but put up with Farnsworth's bullshit for two years, seemingly only because he throws OMG 100 mph!!!!!, its abundantly clear, combined with some of his other gems, that he's really not any better than any other GM in baseball.

63 It's not Cashman pitching him in the 8th though. That's all on Torre.

That was real nice Bobby.

64 WHY IS HE ON THE FUCKING TEAM?

Because he throws 100 miles per hour? Because he "finally turned the corner" after 2005? Because he'