Who in holy hell would want Jose Molina?

Bruce -

Combine the two rumors and you have answers to all your problems and concerns:

Giambi to Angels
Helton to Yankees

Let the other players fall where they may.

1 First ask: who in holy hell would want Wil Nieves?

Molina is a small step up.

2I don't consider going from hideous to miserable worth the paperwork.

For all those who crave Rod Barajas from the Phillies' catching depth, forget it. My friend (a Marlins fan) and I were watching the last two Phillies/Marlins games and besides Barajas' .232/.377/.393 batting line, he also plays just about the worst defensive catcher I've ever seen. Say what you will about Wil Nieves, but at least the guy can block the plate...

Forgetting all the cumbersome salary Helton provides for the next five years, both Giambi and Helton still have to waive their full no-trade clauses. Why would they? Giambi to get out of NY maybe, but the NY fans seem willing to cheer him on. Helton, meanwhile, may not even want to go to the Yankees and only play half the game. The Yankees would have to throw a lot of money at Giambi to waive.

It's not worth it now, and it definitely won't be worth it in 2012 when Helton is making the same as Giambi now and being just as productive.

2 who would we have to give up to get helton? that is the one portion of the rumors that has eluded me.

3 hilarious.

4 Why wouldn't Helton be the starting first baseman?

Over the last 2 year, Giambi has averaged 35 HRs, 100 RBIs and an OPS of .973. How many players can claim this?

Is he a one dimensional player? Yes. Sort of like Travis Hafner, Manny Ramirez and Big Papi. This team is struggling offensively, and even when back on track, with decent but not stellar pitching, we will need to score a lot of runs.

How can anyone consider trading Giambi? The guy has been the 2nd or 3rd most important position player on our team since he arrived (2004 injury plagued year excluded). Because unlike hundreds of other players who have used PEDs, it bothers Jason and he has spoken about it? Because he was 'caught'?

If you have ever been less then 100% honest on your tax return, if you have even driven over the speed limit (which can be a life threatening offense), if you have even broken any of a number of 'soft' laws, don't talk to me about cheating. It's sanctimonious.

Pedroir 'cheated' on his slide into 2nd then other day. So did ARod. Players 'cheat' all the time. Many, many people in baseball has stated that 'cheating' is an 'accepted' part of the game... just don't get caught. Maybe 80% of baseball players lived on 'uppers' for many years, including Willy Mays. Lots and lots of cheaters are in the HOF.

Don't get me wrong. What Jason (and hundreds of other players) did with PEDs is wrong. Absolutely 100% wrong. At least Jason feels badly about it. At least he wants to talk about it (a book will be coming after he retires). But we need to put in in perspective with others in the sport, and what was 'quietly accepted' as 'standard practice'.

All these sanctimonious people, both writing and reporting on baseball, and well as MLB itself KNEW about steroids for years... knew about speed for decades. Not a word was said. Now, it's popular to be all moral about this, after years and years of total blindness. It makes me sick.

If Bonds does NOT deserve to be heralded for breaking the HR record, what about May's 600+ HRs? The guy did uppers his whole career (and did thousands of players). Where do they stand? Do we worship 'cheaters' who didn't get caught, and hang the few who did?

Do you really think Giambi is writing a book for altruistic reasons?

The last time the Yankees were rumored to be considering trading a big bat during the season it was Gary Sheffield and I totally supported the trade. I am doing the same now. Trade Jason Giambi and trade him quickly before they change their minds. If Cashman can get a player who can help now great, but if he can get a solid prospect or two that can turn into decent bench players next season even better. Get rid of Giambi and his horrific contract and call it a day.

9 If we trade Giambi now, who is playing first base?

[10} I meant 1b/dh

4 10 Why would Helton play "only half the game"? He's an above average 1B (Career Rate = 107; 2007 = 109), and better than Mghkj (Career Rate = 102; 2007 = 90).

The next question might be: Who's the DH? I say the rotation of OF's with Melky or Figgins playing defense.

Me, I think all the current problems with the Yankee lineup came from the Giambi signing - the guy walks, homers, or K's. Nothing in between. Helton is a pure hitter - capable of moving a runner over, putting on the hit and run, etc.

5 Considering the Rox were willing to take Lowell and Tavarez and throw in 30 million, I say: Not much!

Giambi 2004-2006 OPS .915
Helton 2004-2006 Road OPS .883

Helton is 3 years younger, but also has a contract that runs 3 years longer. Dumping Jason at this point, even if you have a deal for Helton in place, is ludicrous.

Also, you left out the #1 reason the O's wouldn't deal for Giambi: the fact that Mike Flanagan's kid can't even trade Pokemon cards on the playground without Angelos sticking his nose in and asking for triple word score Pikachu turbos, making the other kids just laugh and walk away.

4 - Hmm how about Carlos Ruiz for one of your relievers? (read that as "any arm that has not yet fallen off of its accompanying reliever).

And how long will it be until the Yanks try to get Jon Lieber back from the Phils also?

Excellent analysis, Bruce, and I agree with your conclusion.

Giambi's productive at-bats would certainly be helpful during a playoff run, but are we really convinced this crawling team is going to run?
I'm not -- but it's too early for Cashman to evacuate his bowels of Giambi's expensive baggage just yet.

With Clemens and Hughes on the way, and Giambi's stock in descent, the Yanks have to wait it out.

In an imaginary world where Pavano earns his money the Yanks could hold their noses and swallow a softball sized chunk of Giambi's salary in a trade. But in this ratshit world that bitter pill is currently the size of a basketball... on steroids. Oy.

Let's go Clip-pard (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap)!

Keep Giambi. Unless some fantastic trade falls into their lap (due to injuries on some other team), trading him just doesn't make sense and/or isn't feasible.

Trading him pretty much waves the white flag. If the Yanks continue to suck, I'm not wholly against that if and only if the result is making the team younger and (this is key) more talented for the future.

10 Simple - you rotate Melky between left & center, Damon & Matsui swap into the DH role every few days...

Then Figgins becomes your super-utility bench dude.

14 Ruiz would be more acceptable, and I'd be willing to part with anyone in the MLB or AAA pen but Mo and Bruney. And just say no to Jon Leiber Part Deux.

15 Yeah, I think the time to trade Giambi may be in July with the Yanks still 10 games out. No one wants to deal with the Yankees in order to help them get better for this year, but a team in a playoff run might be willing to make a deal and give up some prospects, which is what the Yankees need to improve for the future.

I second the Clippard Chant. Clippard v Weaver- how many times will we see this matchup over the next ten years?

17 Not that I endorse the trade, but that's what you would do...

14 With Clemens close, Hughes on the way back, and Clippard and DeSalvo both showing they could do OK - I think Lieber is the last thing on the Yanks' mind.

Forget the merits of Giambi's bat, getting rid of his contract (which is just this year and next, BTW), and who the Yanks would get in return.

The biggest problem with this rumor is that BILL STONEMAN NEVER TRADES ANY OF HIS PROSPECTS. EVER. Ask any Angels fan, they'll tell you.

So unless the Yanks are selling really low - always a bad idea - I don't see this happening, now or later.

13 That difference is enough to call it "ludicrous"? And why leave out 2007?

Giambi: .260 .386 .435
Helton: .360 .466 .547 (Road only)

Small samples noted.

And keep in mind that Giambi is making five million more this year and next year. If the Rox were to throw in any money, it's starts to get close to a steal, especially if they take Farnsworth too.

20 Figgins and Molina aren't prospects any more. And Figgins is making close to 5 million.

First base /DH is a disaster and arguably the reason the Yankees are in such dire straits. Doug Mientkiewicz is a terrible hitter. I cringe when he comes to the plate. Giambi kills us financially and psychologically when he's not striking out or grounding out to the secondbaseman in deep right field. Bernie Williams would have been a much better fit as DH and first base and then you could have unloaded Giambi. Ultimately , we're stuck with him and Mietkeiwcz and not make the playoffs even if CLemens and Hughes can pick up some of the pitching slack. Some seasons are like that. Even so, I say get rid of Giambi now so you don't have the same problem next year.

Thanks for the comments, guys.

Let me make a couple of corrections/clarifications on the original article. Morales is now back in the major leagues, recalled because of some injuries for the Angels at the major league level. He's doing OK, but still doesn't look like the blue chip prospect he was once hyped to be.

Also, I should have mentioned Giambi's no-trade clause. He's not likely to waive it now, but I could see him doing it later in the year if the Yankees fall hopelessly out of contention. He also probably wouldn't mind a return to California.

Just out of curiousity, anybody compare our record last year after the All Star break to the Red Sox current record? Its not outside the realm of possibility of us going on a similar tear and the Red Sox cooling off or simply imploding which they have always been very good at and us ending the season, as always, in first place.

Till they are mathematically eliminated, I will keep the faith!

22 So right now you've got:

Yankees Get:
Todd Helton
Chone Figgins
Benjie Molina

Angels Get:
Jason Giambi

Rockies Get:
Kyle Farnsworth
????

You refer to the Helton-to-Sox rumor, but who is the equivalent to Mike Lowell in this deal? Do you trade some of the prospect pitching depth? The Rockies are set on the left side of the infield. I don't think they'd take Minky or Phelps. Melky's stock has plummeted. The Yanks have no position player prospects above Tampa. With Sanchez hurt, Ohlendorf sucking, and Hughes on the DL, it would have to be Clippard or DeSalvo, or both.

I'm warming on this Jim, but still far away from thinking its a good idea...

I can't go for this trade either -- for one thing, Chone Figgins is right now arguably the worst hitter in baseball. Find me a batter whose slugging and OBP are both below .200.

I agree with Jim D. that the salary factor is not trivial, and Giambi does show some signs of having a bad year. But Helton can't field either, so I'm afraid we'd still be stuck with Scrabble. I'd stick with Jason unless we're out of it by the trading deadline.

Dear lord, not Helton.

His contract is as insane as Giambi's:

06-10:$16.6M/year, 11:$19.1M, 12:$23M club option ($4.6M buyout)

How well will he hit playing full-time away from Coors?

Looking at last year's splits, his OPS at home is .976, reasonably close to the .971 Giambi put up on 2006. On the road? Helton fell to .781. Mientkiewicz's OPS last year? .770.

28 Good call.
That settles it, for me.

So, how do we get Teixeira?

22 And Figgins and Jose Molina are worthless.

On Molina, I agree with Mattpat in 3.

As for Figgins, he essentially would take over for Cairo, right? How is that worth Giambi, even factoring in getting rid of Giambi's contract?

Its not unless, as you said Jim, the Yanks add Helton.

But to do that, the Yanks trade Giambi's year and 4 months remaining contract for Helton's 4 years and 4 months remaining contract. The Yanks replace a 36 year old - who's under contract until he's 38 - with a 34 year old (in August), who's also under contract until he's 38. I just don't see it as an upgrade - especially because Helton may already be in worse decline than Giambi. It'd be a quick fix, not a long term fix, and I see no reason to pick the quick fix. Quick fixes keep getting the Yanks into trouble.

No, the solution to the 1B problem is patience, not other aging over-paid veteran in (or close to) his decline phase.

I can't understand the clamoring to trade Giambi. As BM mentioned, the Yankees need him. For all his faults, G-roid's OPS+ has been off the charts in every season since 1999 (except 2004 when he was "sick"). Trading him would be a huge mistake. He only has one more guaranteed year, so bringing on another long-term albatross like Helton wouldn't make much sense. It'd be one thing if you could keep Helton for 2 or 3 years, but he is under contract until 2012!

With Brett Myers down with an injury, now is the time for Cashman to shop Farnwsorth. In addition to Ruiz, maybe the Phillies would offer a prospect as well. Who knows? Maybe they still want to dump Pat the Bat?

Be creative Cashman1

29 Abreu and DeSalvo?

The thing with adding Helton, even if he's able to hit well consistently away from Coors, is that we'll be having this exact same conversation in 2 years when he's 36 and we realize we're overpaying for league-average hitting.

28 Exactly. Getting Helton precludes us from getting someone younger and better like Teixeira. Not just next year, but for several years.

29 Isn't he a free agent next year? I say we wait it out - he's got to know the Yanks are desperately looking for a 1b, and you all know the reason he wears #23, don't you?

IMO he's a lock if he's on the open market...

26 Yup - that's a start. After that, supposedly th Rox wanted MLB talent in return. And they'd still need a 1B - of course Mghfdj fit but he's not enough. I'm cool with two of lower ranked young arms - Smith, Wright, even Horne.

But it would also depend on how much cash the Rox throw back.

28 Helton was so hurt last year as to have off-season back surgery - see 13 andd 21. Now he's back.

And the money gets close to a very nice deal if the Rox throw in some cash and take Farns.

Let's do the math again:

Giambi (40 mil) +
Farns (10 mil)+
Rox toss 10 mil =

60 million

Helton (90 mil) - 60 mil = 30 million.

In other words, the Yankees get three years of Helton in 2009-2011 for ten million a year.

That's reasonable, even for years 35 - 37.

27 "But Helton can't field either"

Tha's just flat wrong. See 12.

Is Teixeira a free agent after this season? (I'm an idiot when it comes to reading and understanding Cot's Baseball Contracts, sorry.)

38 After 2008.

37 Hm, but Helton's career Zone Rating is .860.

Okay, I get it. .860 is a pretty good ZR.

40 Regardless of the metric, Helton is better than Mghdfkj. And not surprisingly either - he's played almost twice as many games at 1B.

And I don't throw around the name of saints lightly, but Mattingly had a career RATE of 104 (Helton again is at 107).

39 You sure about that?

This is how it reads on Cot's:

"2 years/$15.4M (2006-07), plus incentives". I don't see squat about 2008.

Oh, and this made me laugh when I saw it:

2007 payroll obligations for former players: - $7,000,000 (est.) (Alex Rodriguez)

Tee hee.

43 I was going by this:

http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency08.php?order=position

But both Cot's and mlb4u are usually right, so I don't know.

Count me in in the "Don't trade him" camp.

I'll look at Helton's declining numbers over the past four years before his hot start this year.

43 His contract runs through this year - but this is only his fifth season. He's eligible for arbitration, but no free agency for another year.

32 That's not serious, is it?

0 "soft and passionless"

No doubt you're looking for Abreu to rip the head off the opposing pitcher after a strikeout and drink the lifeblood from his neck.

45 "I'll look at Helton's declining numbers over the past four years before his hot start this year."

It all depends on how you see 2006:

Year, Age, OPS+
1998, 24, 121
1999, 25, 120
2000, 26, 158
2001, 27, 160
2002, 28, 143
2003, 29, 168
2004, 30, 159
2005, 31, 144
2006, 32, 119
2007, 33, 166

If you're going to call 2005 "decline" then you also have to explain 2002.

Otherwise, you're only talking about 2006. He was hurt - the reports and the surgery say so. As does his performance this year.

It's fine if folks don't agree with me for a trade. But Helton is a much better player than Giambi - hitter and defense.

38 43 44 You know, Teixeira, like Helton, plays in a fantastic hitters' park. Has anyone taken a look at Teixeira's home/road splits?

OK, I just did:

AVG/ OBP/ SLG/ OPS
.303/.379/.578/.957, .324 BABIP, 112 OPS+ Home (1424 PA)
.264/.354/.488/.842, .288 BABIP, 88 OPS+ Away (1452 PA)

Yikes! Tex may not be the answer to the Yanks' problems.

48 It would be an improvement.

50 Great note.

One more on Helton: If Giambi is showing us what a hitter in decline looks like from 35 to 37, then I'd be very happy paying 10-15 million/year for the same of Helton especialy since he'll be playing very good defense.

49

WARP1 (includes defense):
Helton - 3.2
Giambi - 1.0

Not a surprise, as Giambi doesn't play the field at all, and when he does, he's not good. Helton is a great fielder.

In terms of just offense

VORP (adjusted for park and league, though note Giambi is compared vs DHs, and Helton compared vs firstbasemen):
Helton - 23.5
Giambi - 6.7

For the moment, Helton is the far better player. But my skepticism is entirely related to 2009 and beyond. We need not worry about Giambi then.

51 It wouldn't improve his OPS.

What about Ty Wigginton for 1B? Rays have Pena aparently making a good impression, somehow... Here's Will Carrol: "
The Rays might need middle relief more than they need some "Aki knocks," but getting Akinori Iwamura back into the lineup runs a close second. Iwamura had looked worth every penny of his posting fee before straining an oblique, but while he was out, Carlos Pena established himself at first base. Does this push B.J. Upton off of second base and into the outfield (especially with the latest Elijah Dukes incident), or does Ty Wigginton share time at first and play as a part-time superutility man? Iwamura is a plus added back into the lineup, but he won't change the Rays' fortunes on his own. The decisions made surrounding his return just might."

Maybe some combination of relievers or DeSalvo or something? Desalvo would be a good pickup for them, think Wiggy would be worth it?

53 See I anticipat