My fucking god. ESPN, in a highlight package about A-Rod's ridikulus hitting tear, just showed Matsuzaka striking him out twice. Good lord.

We absolutely need my prediction from the last thread to come through. Here's to you, CMW.

Arod's been insanely great. Phelps did good in the game as well.

Wang looked relaxed and ready to start his season. And the Yankees world really need a shot of confidence with the pitching.

1 Technically, that 2K was pretty good considering how surreal Arod's been. Besides, what else do you expect from ESPN?

3 I think they need a shot of pitching with the pitching.

Yahoo is killing me! Phil Hughes isn't available yet, not evne lsited. Other guys who haven't played yet are, but no Hughes. My guess is its a 40 man roster thing. Either way, because I have a crappy waiver priority, I know someone else will nab him and I'll have to offer the world for Hughes...Sigh...

In other news, the rotation still stinks. Hoping for more than out of a rusty and yet to build up strength Wanger tomorrow is silly, methinks. I think Farnsworth and Henn should be available. Maybe Karstens can come in as its his throw day? Actually, I think that was today, oh well...

We need pitching help and quick. Has Torre lost his mind completely?? That bullpen is wasted, but why pull Phelps for Damon when Melky (up next) had already made 2 outs with bases loaded?????

I'm tired of the garbage the starting rotation has been putting out. Seriously, three weeks of this trash?

Now that I have contributed less than nothing to this conversation, my job is done. If my post were a Yankees start, it would give up 7 earned runs in 4.1 innings.

6 I know man, what the hell!

7 I still don't have a problem with that. He wanted Johnny Damon to hit. He put Johnny Damon in the best available spot to hit. It didn't work. Shit happens. I'd much rather Damon come up with the bases loaded and one out than sitting on the bench because the platoon player GIDP or coming up with two out and having his chances of success greatly reduced

10 Why would his chances of success be greatly reduced with two outs? All you lose is the sac fly, but down by four that's not much of a concern.

blech is right. according to elias sports bureau:

The Yankees have lost four straight games despite scoring at least five runs in each. Only once before in team history did the Yankees score five or more runs in four straight games and lose them all: June 11-15, 1933.

From the NY Times:

Carl Pavano said he continued to feel a grabbing sensation in his right forearm when he threw. He played catch Monday and has still not been cleared for mound work. "I got after it a little more today, but there's definitely something more to work through, that's for sure," Pavano said.
*

I am officially sick of this. Unless Pavano has some condition that prevents him from healing this is absurd. I'm beginning to feel like he wakes up sore one morning and just decides he can't pitch.

I also think this Hughes move reeks of panic and is a mistake. They've been so careful with him so far. The idea this year was to bring him along slow, limit his workload and possibly have him contribute down the stretch. After seeing pitchers like Liriano, and Hernandez experience growing pains, and the total (and sad) destruction of Mark Prior, I'm really worried. What happened to all this preaching of patience? Yes, we've lost four in a row and some of our starts have have been awful, but seriously, lets examine.

First of all throw away any starts made by people like Chase Wright, you can't really expect that to work out. The first trip through the rotation was also a fluke.

Pettite has pitched well and relatively deep. Wang is coming off the DL and I expect him to be fine. Igawa has been up and down, but I expected that of him and well, he's only the fifth starter so that's about right. Mussina getting hurt so early stinks, but he'll come back and likely be ok. So that leaves Pavano's spot, which I think was a mistake from ST to think he could actually contribute. Still, I don't see the need to rush Hughes just yet.

Lineup shakeup, anyone?

I tried playing with the Baseball Musings Lineup Analysis Tool:

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/LineupAnalysis.py?

And got this lineup:

Abreu
Giambi
Damon
A-Rod
Posada
Matsui
Cano
Minky
Jeter

(I used Matsui's career numbers, because his season numbers are kind of skewed right now.)

Seems crazy, but they (and others) claim that your worst hitter should bat 8th, not 9th, to maximize runs. The leadoff spot should be your best OBP guy, and the 9th spot should go to a leadoff kind of guy. And the #3 spot should go to a guy who is average in both OBP and SLG.

No, I don't expect Torre to do anything this radical. Just thought it was interesting.

4 actually, even with his tear, ARod strikes out a lot. Out of the 18 games, he has 6 2+ strikeout games.

Cliff, the score was actually 10-8, not 10-6. Don't cheat A-Rod of his record tying 14th round tripper of April.

I can't get on the bullpen's case, they've been overused, and necessarily so in most cases because the rotation has been horrible.

Soooo, trade Melky for a decent starting pitcher?

Carl should divide his salary amongst 33 starts. Any start below #30 that he doesn't make, he should give back that salary (I'll be charitable and give him 3 misses.)

Glad I went to bed at 10pm last night.

4 I fully expect ESPN's analysts to attribute A-Rod's streak to the Yankees place in the standings: the more home runs he hits, the further his team sinks, and the lower the Yanks go, the more comfortable he becomes.

How A-Rod is killing the Yankees, and showing up his teammates, next Baseball Tonight!

... and with each passing day my Carl Pavano Game Used Authentic NY Yankees Hat increases in value.

16 Sorry if I didn't sound sarcastic enough. Sliced did a better job in 18.

6 I hear ya on the Hughes waiver issue. I failed to find anything on Yahoo's help pages about when Minor Leaguers get added. But since Chase Wright wasn't added recently, I suspect you're right about 40-man rosters. For example, Wes Obermuller made his first start for the Marlins on Sunday but wasn't added to the list until today. Not that I want to pick up Wes Obermuller. But it may take until after Hughes' start before he's available...

16 yikes. i need coffee.

I am actually preparing myself for a somewhat rusty Wang (then again, who doesn't love a great surprise), however, I am just simply excited that I will get to watch him pitch again. His games are just entertaining and fun to watch.

21 Hughes isn't really on the team yet, no?

hughes is on my fantasy team! Yeah!

I missed my draft and my team has been all kinds of lameness. at least i can get hughes and hope for the best.

23Don't they have some kind of cream for that?

10 First time I disagree with you. I think you have to let Phleps (what about giving him an AB in a big spot for a change?) hit there then you have Daman to hit for Melky.

17 Phil Huge is that decent starting pitcher. Igawa was never expected to be better than a #5. If Moose comes back next week, then you've got a nice rotation of Pettitte, Moose, Wang, and Hughes plus Igawa.

But Tea says Rasner and Karstens are still ahead of Hughes on the depth chart. Seven solid innings on Thursday can change alot.

BTW: The Times piece on Hughes today said he threw 12 changeups in his last start - the most he's ever thrown. Here's hoping he has the confidence in it to throw it to MLB hitters.

Also I think they should send Melky down today. He needs regular AB's and he's not going to get them with Giambi hitting so well as the DH. Thompson is a fine 4th OF.

The Hughes move does have a little whiff of panic, but that doesn't worry me necessarily. Rather, I am concernd that 1] expectations will be too highif (when?) he struggles, and more importantly 2] I assume that he will remain on a strict pitch count, which all but guarantees that he will only go four or five innings. So, it dosn't really solve the problem of the starters not going deep enough into games. At this exact juncture they would be better off bringing up/acquiring some sort of journeyman innings eater, at least until Mussina comes back.

27 Or perhaps better, call up one or two more BP arms (and play short on the bench), and try to patchwork the pitching until Mussina returns.

1 you expect anything less from ESPN? Really, why should they focus on the good that A-Rod is doing? Sports Media Anti-Christs...they make me mad!

My personal opinion about A-Rod is he's proving himself by the simple fact that he is hitting home runs in spite of the fact that they're down a few runs. The pressure doesn't seem to be getting to him as much as last year and if he strikes out a couple of times (even in the clutch) so be it. He's kicking ass and all ESPN seems to do is focus on the bad stuff.

They also have an article on line from Bill Morris predicting that the Yanks won't win the AL East (perhaps, but I'm not that pessimistic)
If I may copy & paste:
"Well, you know what? I don't think it's happening. Not this year. You can play possum too many times. In the big scheme of things, winning the division doesn't mean that much, but it means something, and it would be fun to watch the Yanks slumming it in the wild-card spot for once."

I don't have a good enough comeback for this guy so I'll just say...OH JUST SHUT UP, DUDE!

18 Bread, thanks - you actually gave the abbreviated version of what I wanted to say. I'm a yenta!

27 I don't think they'll keep him on a pitch count. Right now, he's more Moose's replacement than a permanent addition to the staff. Tea said yesterday Karstens is still ahead of Hughes on the depth chart.

The ideal scenario to me is Phil has a solid but not spectacular outing (6-7 IP, 3-4 ER, 5-8 K) then they send him back down to continue work on his change and restrict his IP there. If he pitches better than that they could keep him up, but I suspect they want to first find out what's up with Pavano, Igawa, Karstens, and even Rocket over the next month before they start to depend heavily on Hughes. Not a bad startegy if you ask me - may produce some trade chips while they restrict Phil's innings.

As excited as I am now to see Hughes, now is not the time to do so.
The need to limit his innings is completely at odds with what is needed for the Yanks' pen right now.
If he goes 6 strong on Thursday, Torre will be tempted to leave him in for 7 or more, to allow the bullpen some rest- not a smart thing when it's April and the kid has about a 180 inning limit.

Bring up Ohlendorf or DeSalvo instead.

32 I really don't think so - Torre's not a dummy, he realizes this kid is the future of the franchise...

Bringing up Hughes so soon smacks of panic. So much for patience. Cashman isn't much different from Steinbrenner at times when it comes to the desperation to win. Even with Hughes, I'm not sure how much the Yankees can do with this starting rotation with Pavano languishing on the DL yet again.

32 I agree to an extent, but there's no guarantee 'Dorf or DeSalvo could give the Yanks even 5 innings against the Jays, so either way the bullpen will likely be burdened.

The way things line up, Hughes appears to be the best bet to win the game on Thursday. Wins are good. We need wins. So why not throw him in the water and see how he swims? Regardless of the result it will be an experience Phil can learn from, and build on.

Welcome to the bigs, kid! Show 'em what you got!

32 Besides, even if pitches on somewhat of a 'normal' schedule from now until the end of the season, he'll still be on or around 180 innings. If he skips a few turns and/or is limited to 5 IP for a few months, he'll be fine.

A pitch is a pitch is a pitch, etc. I can't understand what the difference is in throwing pitches in the Minor Leagues and in the Majors. Hughes is going to pitch somewhere, why not in NY? Do Minor League pitchers throw underhanded or something? And if he is so mentally weak that a subpar performance hurts him, maybe he isn't cut out for the big time. It is time to see what he is made of. If he works out, cut bait on Pussy Pavano and Igawa's inconsistency will not matter as much.

35 37 Exactly right IMHO.

1427 The Hughes move is a sign of panic…but what's wrong with that? When your starters can't go past 4 innings and your manager can't handle the bullpen, well, it's time to panic.

I don't understand the theory that says throwing pitches at the major league level is more taxing the minor league level? The same arm is being used …it's not like Hughes is throwing lefty in Scranton. At this point, Hughes is clearly the Yankees best option (and he could very well be their last hope for this season). Everyone seems to just expect that the team will wakeup in the playoffs in October. If the team has a couple of more weeks like the past two, the only positive outcome would be Cashman would have more time to extend Arod.

The alarmists who keep bring up Liriano and Prior are also missing the obvious fact that they both pitched their first extensive number of MLB innings at age 22. So, does that mean we should hold Hughes down until he is 23, 24 or 25? There are a lot of pitchers who have debuted in their age-21 season and been healthy. Anecdotes can be cited on either side. To this point, Hughes workload has been pristine compared to the likes of Prior (who was worked hard at USC) and Liriano (who pitched winter ball and the WBC before 120 IPs in the majors last year). If you are going to live in fear of an injury, then you might as well not let him pitch at all (or at least learn to throw side arm).

10 It was an awful move. Phelps has hit the ball hard and Melky has been worse than Minky. Also, in 39 PAs as a pinch hitter, Damon has an OPS of .419. In that situation, Phelps was clearly the best option. Damon could have still hit for Melky. You simply can't strategize around avoiding double plays when you are down by 4 runs in the 8th.

32 Hughes is the best young pitcher the Yankees have in their organization. What are we waiting for? Are you prepared to write off this season? I don't foresee Cashman hitting the lottery with Small and Chacon this year, so I wouldn't rest comfortably on the Yankees ability to come back from horrible Aprils in recent years.

37 It's less the quality of the pitches, and more the quality of the hitters. It might have been better to start Phil against a barely out of AAA Devil Rays lineup, and save Wang for the Stadium.

34 "Bringing up Hughes so soon smacks of panic."

That's a popular perception, and I can't really argue against it other than to toss out the old "desperate times call for desperate measures." The Yanks are the absolute pits pitching-wise.

If Hughes is the Yanks best bet to notch a win on Thursday, and help the team climb out of the hole, who cares how his call up is perceived?

If he loses on Thursday? So what? At least the Yanks gave it their best shot. It definitely won't be the last we see of Phil Hughes. I can guarantee that.

What about a two headed monster named HughlenDorf? The 'pen has been getting torched due to overuse, so maybe you ID a guy to pair up with Hughes, and on 'their' start day, you try and do everything you can to get 8 or 9 innings out of those two...
Or, if you don't think Hughes handing off to Dorf or DeSalvo after 5 innings (or vice versa) gives you the best chance to win, then you give Hughes his own starts backed by the bullpen, and line up a swing guy on Igawa's start days.
I'm just saying, you need to be creative. I don't want to waste Hughes' innings in Scranton if possible, but if his continued success in the bigs also involves exacerbating the issue of a tired bullpen, you need to start looking at things from a different point of view.

39 the differences are multifold.

In AAA ball, it may take 18 pitches to pitch through a jam. Than can easily turn into 30+ pitches in the majors. IP in MLB = more pitches.

It is not as important that the AAA team wins and therefore there is less pressure on the managers to leave a pitcher in longer than they should.

confidence. Anyone who has ever managed knows that confidence is everything in performance (not just in baseball). If a young pitcher doesn't succeed in MLB, that can affect their confidence if they weren't ready yet.

just some of the ways where things are different...

40
I understand that, but all this hand wringing over him having a better chance of getting injured in the Majors seems crazy. He will be throwing the same pitches in Scranton as he will in NY. I attend alot of Minor League games in Greensboro and those guys try to throw pitches to get hitters out just like the guys in the Stadium. If he is going to get injured, at least let it happen while he is trying to help the Yankees and not while he is waiting his turn to get there.

43
It is time to see what he is made of. I really don't see Joe letting him throw too many pitches. He doesn't let any of his starters go past 100, it seems. And if the Yankees piss around too much longer, they will find themselves is too big of a hole to climb out of. Just ask the Phillies last year how that works. Games in April and May are just as important as the games in Sept.

45 I agree it is time to bring him up. Just pointing out that pitching in MLB is not the same as pitching in AAA.

43 Those are issues that might impact performance, but not strain on the arm of Hughes. Look, if Hughes comes up and throws 100 pitches in 3 innings, then you can adjust your philosophy. But, if he can throw 90 pitches in 5 or 6, well, that would actually be a significant improvement for now. The Yankees CAN manage his workload. If the argument is that Torre can't be trusted to do that, well, then he should be the one to go.

44 Granted. A pitch is a pitch. I just don't expect Phil to do as well up in the majors (at lest at first) as he has in the minors -- too many better hitters. I think Torre will need to limit his number of pitches 80-90. 42 Intriguing idea, Knuckles. Say Phil goes 6, you then have the other guy go 2 and hand off to Mo (or go three if Mo isn't available). Just need Wang & Pettitte & Moose to go deep. Oh, and get another starter for the #5 slot. (Is Rasner or Karstens still on for the #5 slot?)

Also, the Yankees have had three pitching prospects go down with TJ surgery and all of them had only pitched in the minors. Injuries can and DO happen anywhere. There is no compelling evidence to suggest a young pitcher is more at risk in the major leagues than the minor leagues.

47 they affect strain quite clearly. If you are in MLB you are going to throw more pitches. period. that affects strain.

If your confidence is down, you are going to overthrow. That affects strain. period.

etc.. etc...

50 No...being in MLB doesn't require that you throw more pitches. There isn't a minimum pitch requirement...if the Yankees want to keep him on a pitch count they can. You haven't given me a reason why Hughes HAS to throw more pitches in the majors?

The confidence argument is silly. If Hughes pitches well, he'll be confident, and therefore wont endure the strain of the majors. If he doesn't, he'll be demoted, in which case, he'd long have to endure the strain of the majors.

The only way your argument would make any sense would be if the Yankees plan to trot him out for 7 innings every start, regardless of the game situation. I don't have many nice things to say for Torre's handling of a staff, but he is not Dallas Green.

42 I really like that idea.

47, 45, 44, et al. The issue is not whether it is more difficult to pitch in MLB v. AAA, or if a 'pitch is a pitch' nomatter where it is thrown. The particular problem the Yankees have right now is that no starter (except Pettitte) is capable of going five innings, let alone six or (gasp) seven, and this is torching the BP. Bringing up Hughes in all likelihood does not address this problem at all, because even if he throws shut-out innings, his pitch/inning limit means that he will still probably only go about five innings, Sure, they may be five shut-out innings (which is better than what we have seen), but that still means four BP innings, or four appearences by Proctor and Bruney if you prefer to see it that way.

So, call up Hughes! I have no problem with this--indeed, I thought he should have started the season as the #4 or #5. But I do not see this move as addressing the systemic pitchings woes that are plaguing the team right now.

How did the guys "back in the day" ever make it......pitching complete games more often than not, pitching 300+ innings, pitching in 4 man rotations, relieving when needed on their off days, etc.?

Pitchers today are weak.

52 Here are the options:

A) Call up Hughes and hope that he really is what the scouts say, in which case, he should be able to give you at least 5 or 6 innings each start.

B) Keep trotting out scary fly ball guys to get waxed so we can watch more Colter Bean in the 4th inning.

I understand your presentation, but I don't see how Hughes ISN'T the best option to help alleviate some of the pressure.

51 You are ignoring realities of pitching in AAA v. MLB. Yes, most pitchers will throw more pitches when pitching in MLB as a result of having to throw more pitches to get throw the same number of innings. Hughes in particular wi