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Infielders:
J. Giambi BR BP E MLB
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W. Betemit BR BP E MLB mi
C. Ransom BR BP E MLB mi
J. Miranda BR BC mi

Outfielders:
B. Abreu BR BP E MLB
J. Damon BR BP E MLB
X. Nady BR BP E MLB
H. Matsui BR BP E MLB mi
B. Gardner BR E MLB mi
M. Cabrera BR BP E MLB mi

Catchers:
I. Rodriguez BR BP E MLB
J. Molina BR BP E MLB
C. Moeller BR BP E MLB mi
F. Cervelli BR BC mi

Starting Pitchers:
M. Mussina BR BP BC E
A. Pettitte (L) BR BP BC E
P. Hughes BR BP BC E mi
C. Pavano BR BP BC E mi
A. Aceves BR E mi

Relief Pitchers:
M. Rivera BR BP BC E
J. Chamberlain BR BP BC E
D. Marte (L) BR BP BC E
J. Veras BR BP BC E mi
E. Ramirez BR BP BC E mi
B. Bruney BR BP BC E mi
D. Giese BR BP BC E mi
C. Britton BR BP BC E mi
P. Coke (L) BR BC E mi
D. Rasner BR BP BC E mi
S. Ponson BR BP BC E mi
D. Robertson BR BC E mi
H. Sanchez BC mi

15-day DL:
C. Wang BR BP BC E
60-day DL:
J. Posada BR BP E MLB
J. Albaladejo BR BP BC E mi
A. Brackman BC

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J. Girardi (Mgr) BR BP BC
R. Thomson (Bench) BC
Kevin Long (Hit) BR
D. Eiland (Pitch) BR BP BC
B. Meacham (3B) BR BP BC
T. Peña (1B) BR BP BC
M. Harkey (Pen) BR BP BC

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AAA
S. Duncan BR BP E MLB mi
J. Christian BR BP E MLB mi
I. Kennedy BR BP BC E mi
C. Wright (L) BR BP BC E mi
J. Marquez BR BC mi

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B. Traber (L) BR BP BC E mi

Select Minor Leaguers:

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B. Castro BR mi DL
C. Basak BR BP BC E MLB mi
E. Duncan BC mi
N. Green BR mi
B. Broussard BR mi
M. Carson BC mi
C. Stewart BR BP E MLB mi
J. Brown BC mi DL
K. Igawa (L) BR BP BC E JB mi
M. Melancon BC mi
J.B. Cox BC mi
S. Strickland BR BC mi
S. Jackson BC mi
E. Milton BR BC mi DL
V. Zambrano BR BC mi DL

AA Trenton Thunder:
K. Russo BR mi
R. Peña BC mi DL
C. Malec BC mi
M. Vechionacci BC mi DL
A. Jackson BC mi
C. Curtis BC mi
E. Gonzalez BR mi
P.J. Pilittere BC mi
J. Jones BC mi
G. Kontos BC mi
J. Nuñez BC mi
B. Smith BC mi DL
A. Claggett BC mi
O. Perez BR BC mi
M. Gardner BC mi
K. Whelan BC mi
W. Arias (L) BC mi

A Tampa Yankees:
E. Nuñez BC mi
C.J. Henry BC mi DL
T. Battle BC mi
K. Anson BC mi
J. Gil BC mi
A. Horne BC mi DL
Z. McAllister BC mi
W. De La Rosa (L) BC mi
C. Garcia BC mi

Low-A Charleston RiverDogs:
J. Snyder BC mi
M. Cusick BC mi
B. Suttle BC mi
A. Romine BC mi
J. Montero BC mi
D. Betances BC mi
J. Heredia BC mi
J. Ortiz BC mi
C. Heyer BC mi

Low-A Staten Island Yankees:
D. Adams mi
P. Venditte mi

Rookie Gulf Coast Yankees:
C. Joseph mi
C. Smith mi
K. Higashioka mi

Key:
BR = Baseball-Reference
BP = Baseball Prospectus
BC = Baseball Cube (past mL stats)
mi = MiLB.com (current mL stats)
E = ESPN (current splits, game logs)
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JB = Japanese Baseball.com

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S. Patterson BR BC mi SD

Nady/Marte Trade:
J. Tabata BC mi
J. Karstens BR BP BC E mi
R. Ohlendorf BR BP BC E
D. McCutchen BC mi

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J. Lane BR mi BOS mL
G. Porter BC mi WAS mL
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S. White BR BC mi

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J. Torre (Mgr) BR BP BC LAD
D. Mientkiewicz BR BP BC E MLB PIT
A. Phillips BR BP BC E MLB mi CIN
J. Phelps BR BP BC E MLB STL
M. Cairo BR BP BC E MLB SEA
K. Thompson BR BP BC E MLB mi PIT
B. Sardinha BC mi SEA mL
W. Nieves BR BP BC E MLB WAS
R. Clemens BR BP BC E mi
T. Clippard BR BP BC E mi WAS
L. Vizcaino BR BP BC E COL $7.5m/2yrs
M. DeSalvo BR BP BC E mi ATL mL
M. Myers (L) BR BP BC E LAD mL
R. Villone (L) BR BP BC E mi STL
S. Proctor BR BP BC E LAD
J. Brower BR BP BC E mi CIN mL
C. Bean BR BP BC E mi ATL mL

2007 Campers and mLers:
E. Durazo BR BP BC E MLB mi
A. Cannizaro BR BP BC E MLB mi TB mL
A. Chavez BR BP BC E MLB mi LAD mL
K. Reese BR BP BC E MLB mi
R. Chavez BR BP BC E MLB mi PIT mL
O. Santos BC mi BAL mL
T. Pratt BR BP BC E MLB
T.J. Beam BR BP BC E mi PIT mL
B. Kozlowski (L) BR BP BC E mi Japan

Molina Trade:
J. Kennard BC mi

Abreu Trade
M. Smith (L) BR BP BC E mi PHI
C. Monasterios BC mi PHI
J. Sanchez mi PHI

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What Becomes a Semi-Legend Most?
2007-01-26 07:27
by Alex Belth

There have been great players who never had a great moment; men who went on year after year, running up formidable statistics, but were no more fearsome than anybody else in the few, crucial moments of their careers. They popped up or flied out in key at-bats, or did not even fail that spectacularly. They simply singled when they should have homered, cut the ball off from going into the gap when they should have made the diving, sliding catch. They played on no great teams, took part in no immortal moments, and passed quietly and respectably from the game, vaguely admired by all.

From Sometimes You See it Coming, a novel by Kevin Baker

I ran across this passage the other night and it got me to wondering: How many great baseball players can we put into this category? (And I think Baker is talking about great playoff moments, really.) Ernie Banks, Dick Allen, Jeff Bagwell, and Alex Rodriguez come to mind. I might even be wrong about them. What do you guys think? Something to chew-over on a bright, but brutally cold day in The Big Apple.

Comments (151)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-01-26 07:48:47
1.   Ken Arneson
Frank Thomas comes to mind. He got a ring with the White Sox, but he was hurt for most of the year, including the playoffs.

This doesn't happen so much in baseball, but I often think about the unfortunate great players who happen to play in an era with an all-time dominant player, grabbing all the headlines and the trophies. What would we think of Mickelson if there wasn't a Tiger? Of Stockton, Malone, Drexler, Ewing, Olajuwon if there wasn't a Jordan? Of Messier if there wasn't a Gretzky? Of Nadal and Roddick if there wasn't a Federer? Where would Borg and McEnroe be if Federer had played back then?

2007-01-26 07:50:20
2.   Jim Dean
The surefire HOF'ers but who won't make it because of popular opinion:

Dale Murphy.
Andre Dawson.
Bert Blyleven.

Put any of them in the Northeast and they coast in.

2007-01-26 07:51:23
3.   Knuckles
Sorry to switch sports, but this passage just screams Patrick Ewing.
2007-01-26 07:54:04
4.   markp
Arod's postseason OPS is 847. If not for him, the Twins win in 2004 (1,213 OPS). If not for him, the Yanks don't go up 3-0 vs Boston in the same year (894 OPS). The horrible series by Derek Jeter and the failures by Gordon and Mariano to close out games were the reasons we lost that year.
2007-01-26 07:58:09
5.   Shawn Clap
Didn't Frank Thomas just have a 2 homerun game in the ALDS?
2007-01-26 08:02:54
6.   joejoejoe
OT: I highly recommend Kevin Baker's novel 'Dreamland'. It's one of the best works of historical fiction I've ever read with an almost unbelievably rich subject matter - New York City and Coney Island circa 1910. It's as good as Doctorow's 'Ragtime'.
2007-01-26 08:05:35
7.   NetShrine
markp - with no disrespect meant....

I do not agree with this belief that Rodriguez carried the Yankees against the Twins in 2004.

Yes, A-Rod had the big hit in the bottom of the 12th in Game 2. And, in the 11th inning of Game 4, Rodriguez doubled, stole third, and scored on a wild pitch.

But, Derek Jeter and Hideki Matsui also tore the cover off the ball for that entire series. And, believe it or not, Kevin Brown pitched a gem in Game 3 (when the series was tied 1-1). And, of course, Mo was Mo, as usual, in that series.

Also, it was Ruben Sierra who hit that clutch 3-run HR with one out in the 8th to tie Game 4 at five. If Big Rube does not get that hit, it's a tied series going into a "winner-take-all" Game 5 situation.

This is not to say that A-Rod did not have a fine 2004 ALDS - because he did. But, to claim that "he carried the Yankees" in this post-season series is a joke.

He got a big hit in the 12th to help set up the great comeback win in Game 2. And, he hit a double to help set up the tie-breaking game-winning-run in the 11th inning of Game 4. But, a lot of other Yankees did big things at the plate and on the mound to win Game 3, and, it was Ruben Sierra who "carried" the team in Game 4 - not A-Rod.

2007-01-26 08:13:47
8.   rsmith51
Rafael Palmeiro comes to mind.
2007-01-26 08:18:33
9.   Jim Dean
8 Are you serious?

"..and passed quietly and respectably from the game, vaguely admired by all"

2007-01-26 08:27:22
10.   OldYanksFan
Not to intrude on this thread topic, but I had a thought.
Mark Teixeira is 26. Is he a FA in 2008?
He has a career OPS of .900.
I don't know if he is a liability with the glove.. another Giambi type?
Is Cashman targeting him? Is this why we only got a 1b-man who would take a 1 year contract?

Like in the game of chess, I think a GM has to look at the FA market 3 years ahead, and I assume Cashman is doing this.

I am reminded on how out of nowhere, Cash swooped on Damon and turned him onto a Yankee overnight. Is Tex in Cashmans sights?

2007-01-26 08:31:09
11.   Schteeve
7 This is just proof that no matter what A-Rod does, people will discount it, because they simply don't like the dude.
2007-01-26 08:35:11
12.   BobbyBaseBall
10 Right about the time the RJ trade went down, i was wondering whether Cash would flip a few of the lesser pitching prospects for Tex (I think this was before MCI was signed). Rangers always need pitching, Cash has lots of pitching prospects...it makes sense. However, I only think the Rangers trade Tex mid-season if they get the feeling they won't be able to resign him.
2007-01-26 08:35:23
13.   Bama Yankee
How about Dave Winfield? Although I'm sure that Charlie Leibrandt does not refer to him as Mr. May...
2007-01-26 08:36:51
14.   Cliff Corcoran
All I could think about reading that passage was Ted Williams.

Ty Cobb also lept to mind, but Cobb had an excellent 1908 Series.

Banks and Allen, of course, never got the opportunity, and Williams only had one.

1 Blyleven doesn't apply. He has two World Series rings, a career 2.47 ERA in the postseason, and a 2.35 World Series ERA, all with strong peripheral stats. He had 1.80 ERA in the 1979 Series, winning his one start and also pitching in relief, and in the NLCS against the remnants of the Big Red Machine that year he tossed a complete game, allowing 1 run and striking out 9.

Dawson had a solid 1981 NLDS against the Phillies, but that was the first round of the strike-year playoffs so I can understand why it's been forgotten.

8 Palmeiro does have 4 postseason homers and a pretty good career line in the ALCS, his best series coming agains the Yankees in 1996.

5 Frank Thomas has 3 postseason homers, a career .433 OPB in four postseason series and was a monster in both the 1993 ALCS and 2006 ALDS.

10 Teixeira is one of the best defensive first basemen in baseball. I believe he'll be a free agent after the 2008 season unless the Rangers give him a long-term deal, which they should do. If he hits the market he'll be one of the top, if not the top, names on it.

2007-01-26 08:38:09
15.   Ken Arneson
5 Yeah, but then Thomas pretty much went 0-for-ALCS.
2007-01-26 08:38:42
16.   Cliff Corcoran
13 You answered your own question.
2007-01-26 08:48:31
17.   Raf
You guys mean someone like Willie Randolph, or Roy White?
2007-01-26 08:48:33
18.   Cliff Corcoran
15 Not pretty much, he did go 0 for the 2006 ALCS, with two walks. But such is the nature of postseason play and its small samples. The best example is that Reggie Jackson hit .227/.298/.380 in 11 ALCS, but .357/.457/.755 in his 5 World Series. End result? .278/.358/.527 in the postseason vs. .262/.356/.490 in the regular season on his career. Sample size is the issue here.

Take a look at another Yankee famous for postseason heroics, Derek Jeter: .262/.339/.405 in 7 career ALCS but .370/.431/.580 in 11 career ALDS. Overall: .314/.384/.479 postseason, .317/.388/.463 regular season.

This works very well for Mr. October and Mr. November because they played in so many postseason series that the sample becomes resonable (Jackson: 281 postseason ABs, Jeter: 478 postseason ABs--and Jackson's sample is still small).

As for Alex Rodriguez, he's a career .315/.413/.611 hitter in his three ALCS appearances and was a monster vs. the Yankees in 2000 and vs. the Twins in the 2004 ALDS. He doesn't apply here, he's gotten those big hits.

2007-01-26 08:51:26
19.   Cliff Corcoran
17 Willie was a monster in the 1980 ALCS and in the 1990 ALCS for the A's. Roy White hit .278/.387/.430 in six postseason series vs. .271/.360/.404 regular season career and saved the best for last with fantastic showings in the 1978 ALCS and World Series.
2007-01-26 09:00:10
20.   williamnyy23
7 Arod definitely doesn't belong on this list. While it seems as if anything Arod does gets discounted, he did have a monster 1213 OPS in the 2004 ALDS. Even though Matsui was nearly as good (Jeter wasn't), Arod also made the "key" plays in that series as well. If he doesn't come through in Game 2, the Yankees would have been facing a 2-0 deficit with Santana waiting (and likely pitching in game 5 on full rest). That was unquestionably, a huge hit. Then, as you mentioned, Arod single handedly scored the winning run in Game 4.

I guess we can argue about whether he "carried" the team or not, but the bottom line is Arod's series was very "clutch".

Finally, it is worth noting that Arod WAS very good in the post season with the Mariners; had a great start to the 2004 ALCS; and also had a very good .OBP in the 2005 ALDS (even though he was single handedly blamed for that series loss).

2007-01-26 09:05:56
21.   Bama Yankee
16 Yeah, that one double probably keeps him off this list. But, he is probably known more for his poor postseason performances than that one big hit (certainly in the view of Yankee fans). In a similar way, it has been said that the Atlanta Braves are one David Justice homer away from being the Buffalo Bills of baseball.
2007-01-26 09:06:35
22.   OldYanksFan
"Teixeira is one of the best defensive first basemen in baseball. I believe he'll be a free agent after the 2008 season unless the Rangers give him a long-term deal, which they should do. If he hits the market he'll be one of the top, if not the top, names on it."

If this is true, can the Rangers afford to re-sign him? We are talking in the neighborhood of 6/96? If the Rangers need pitching, would Melky and 3 (non-Hughes) kids do it? To some extend, it would be a salary dump for Texas, and is smarter then letting him become a FA and only getting 1 draft pick for him.

My question is: Is this in the front of Cashmans mind? Might this partially explain Minky?

2007-01-26 09:07:25
23.   New Amsterdam Yankees
Stan Musial posted a line of .256/.347/.395 in 4 World Series against a career line of .331/.417/.559. Small sample though (86 AB) and he did have a pretty good 1944 Series (.304/.360/.522).
2007-01-26 09:08:04
24.   williamnyy23
18 Bernie also has some interesting splits: .321/.413/.549 in 7 career ALCS but .208/.319/.358 in 6 career WS. Overall: .275/.371/.480 postseason, .297/.381/.477 regular season.

It appears as if Bernie and Jeter are very similar in overall stats, but Jeter has more "moments".

Many Yankees, in fact, have varied post season splits. Probably the most consistent was Tino, but that wasn't a good thing.

2007-01-26 09:09:33
25.   David
IMHO the words, "passed quietly and respectably from the game, vaguely admired by all" elimimates all the Hall of Famers, especially ARod., who will finish some where in the top 3 in all-time HRs, 3000+ hits, etc.

The Yankee who most perfectly fits the description is Bobby Abreu.

2007-01-26 09:11:51
26.   tommyl
22 Who knows with Cashman? Last year he spent weeks telling us Bubba was the answer in CF only to swoop in and get Damon. Having read accounts of what Cashman's office looks like though: every wall covered with tablets for the 40-man roster of every team, with contract status and years in the league; I'd have to guess he's thought about it. Cash is widely known for being one of the best GMs when it comes to information gathering (which is why he sometimes makes moves that are surprising to us).
2007-01-26 09:12:37
27.   tommyl
24 Bernie's had some moments though. He was awful in the 2000 WS except for that towering HR...
2007-01-26 09:13:09
28.   Cliff Corcoran
22 Nothing explains Minky, there were better one-year options out there. This is a post I owe you guys.
2007-01-26 09:17:08
29.   williamnyy23
25 Ken Singleton comes to mind as well. Singleton had a very good career with several great seasons, not to mention two rings. If you think about it, Singleton was a very consistent, quality contributor, but was always overshadowed by bigger names on his team (and underappreciated in an era when the value of OBP wasn't fully recognized). Also, other than being the first player to reach "the black" at the new YS, he doesn't really have a claim to fame.
2007-01-26 09:18:38
30.   Cliff Corcoran
25 Abreu has a solid Hall of Fame chance himself, you know. All he needs a little longevity and a couple more postseason runs, one of which he should get this year in pinstripes.
2007-01-26 09:21:13
31.   williamnyy23
29 There may have been, but I wonder how much personality factored into the equation, not to mention his childhood friendship with Arod? In other words, if choosing between two sub-par options, wouldn't it be wise to sign a player who might make life more comfortable for your superstar?

Still, there was really no reason to let Wilson go. He is right handed and has a very solid track record. Unfortunately, his performance last season landed him in Torre's dog house. Who knows? Maybe he didn't have enough fire in his belly?

2007-01-26 09:27:47
32.   Shawn Clap
MARK LANGSTON - A superb picther who had the misfortune of playing for some crummy teams.

The only memorable moment I have of Langston is of him crying in the dugout after being outdueled by Randy Johnson in the 1-game 1995 playoff for the AL West.

2007-01-26 09:37:21
33.   NetShrine
Schteeve - I would counter your take with "This is just proof that no matter what A-Rod does, people will discount it, because they simply want to like the dude."
2007-01-26 09:56:42
34.   Schteeve
33 I don't know Alex Rodriguez. I have no idea if I like him or not, and I don't frankly care if he's nice or if he is smarmy, or wants everyone to like him, or squeezes the sawdust out of the bat or whatever, or kicks puppies. He is a really really really freaking good baseball player, and without his contribution in the 2004 ALDS the Yankees would very likely have lost.

This isn't about me being a fan boy. This is about objectively evaluating the dude's performance.

I guarantee you that if we took a poll of every Yankee fan in America right now, more of them would be ok with trading A-Rod than Matsui, and that's outrageous and stupid.

2007-01-26 09:58:19
35.   Schteeve
31 It would have been even better if he had fire in his belly full of guts. As opposed to A-Rod who apparently has a belly full of sawdust, or stuffed unicorns or something.
2007-01-26 10:04:45
36.   yankz
What next, Barry Bonds for US Senator?

http://tinyurl.com/3calcm

(Schilling discusses Senate candidacy, via Deadspin)

2007-01-26 10:04:47
37.   BALCO Lab Rats
Many players that played part of their career with the Montreal Expos would fit this description: Andres Galarraga, Tim Wallach; Dawson and Langston were mentioned before, maybe Tim Raines?
2007-01-26 10:06:06
38.   Bama Yankee
He's not done yet, but Todd Helton could be on this list. His career batting average is only two hits short of being 1/3 and he is a 3-time gold glove 1B, but his career lacks that defining moment (probably due to his lack of postseason participation and playing his entire career for the Rockies).

I still remember him as a quarterback for the Tennessee Vols. However, even there he was best known for backing up Heath Shuler for two years and then losing his starting job to Peyton Manning after an injury.

2007-01-26 10:06:13
39.   joejoejoe
25 29 Looking at his career stats Ken Singleton was a lot better than I remembered. He's got the same career SLG% as Don Baylor yet I remember Baylor as a masher and Singleton as steady. Both great players but Singleton looks better in hindsight.

Bernie was better than both.

2007-01-26 10:09:31
40.   Jim Dean
28 Not for nothing, Cliff, but you don't owe us anything (how's that for double negatives?).

Though I'm sure I'll appreciate it if it's posted.

That said, I have trouble seeing where you stand on the Cairo signing. You seem to say "He's what he is, but there wasn't much out there."

What grade would you give it? Surely, not an A or B? Indeed, I'd be very curious to see your report card on the GM near the end of the off-season.

14 I agree on Blyleven though he'd be in the HOF if he had done any of that in a bigger city.

2007-01-26 10:24:47
41.   Jeteupthemiddle
28 I still encourage people to read Anthony's blog regarding Mientkiewicz.
http://ndai.blogspot.com/2007/01/mientkiewicz-or-why-steven-goldman-is.html#links

======================
So what can we expect from Eyechart going forward? ZiPS has his 2007 projection as .255/.342/.383. Marcel has him at .260/.336/.402. Let's average them out: .258/.339/.393. Using a simple Runs Created formula, that works out to 77 runs per 650 plate appearances.

Now that's not very good. The average AL 1B hit .280/.352/.467. In the NL, it was .290/.372/.507. Let's say that the average 1B hits .285/.362/.487, or 102 runs/650 PA. Maybe that's unfair to Mientkiewicz, since the NL is the easier league and those stats should be discounted a bit more, but whatever.

Anyway, we can put those numbers on a scale of batting average with this formula: (1.8*OBP + SLG) * .2595. For Mientkiewicz, it's .260. For the average 1B, it's .295. You can look at those numbers the same way you look at batting average, so they're easy to understand.

Baseball Prospectus figures replacement level in a couple different ways. This one works on the batting average scale, this one on the runs scale. These would set the replacement level for first basemen at a .261 average and 75 runs. What was Mientkiewicz again? .260 and 77 runs. In other words, he's the definition of replacement.
=============================

So basically, offensively, he is the definition of replacement level, and defensively he is still above average even if his defense has slipped a bit in recent years.

And, to top it all off, he has only receieved a 1 year $1.5M contract.

2007-01-26 10:33:29
42.   thelarmis
law has some nice words about our minor league system over at that 4-lettered site.

http://tinyurl.com/ysb5jg

have a nice weekend everyone. looking forward to that post you mentioned, cliff. and, yes, abreu has a nice shot at the HoF. i'm a HUGE fan of the 300-300 club and really enjoy following 20-20, 30-30, 40-40 seasons. i've written a few "articles" about it. bobby is all over the consistent 20-20 seasons, up there w/ both bonds. a really great all-around player. i followed him throughout his philty career and hope we pick up his '08 option (granted he stays healthy, of course)...

2007-01-26 10:36:51
43.   thelarmis
pete abe also has a list of prospects courtesy of the new baseball america handbook.
2007-01-26 10:43:56
44.   Jeteupthemiddle
So I just read the Kieth Law piece, and I don't believe he is accurate.

For one, no way is Tabata considered a top 10 prospect in all of baseball. As much as I love him, it is just not accurate to say.

Also, Tabata is no longer in the Venezuelan league because while Law reports he "is swinging without problems" he reaggrivated his hand injury at least a month ago and was sent home so he could just stop and rest before the season.

2007-01-26 11:13:26
45.   Jim Dean
44 Law : Scout as Phillips : GM.
2007-01-26 11:16:02
46.   pistolpete
For some reason, a lot of the old Blue Jays players jump to mind - before they won championships with Key & Carter, that is.

People like Jorge Bell, Jesse Barfield, etc.

Fred McGriff also comes to mind...

2007-01-26 11:25:11
47.   Shaun P
Until I got to this phrase

"They played on no great teams, took part in no immortal moments"

the name "Lou Whitaker" flashed through my head. But the '84 Tigers were a great team, and that 35-5 start was an immortal moment, though I think Whitaker is 4th or 5th on the list of "Tigers you think of when someone mentions the '84 team" (behind Morris, Trammel, Kirk Gibson, and maybe Willie Hernandez).

Its a shame, IMHO, that Whitaker was passed over so easily for the Hall of Fame - he didn't even get enough votes to stay on the ballot after his first year of eligibility.

2007-01-26 11:34:31
48.   Shawn Clap
47 Darrell Evans on that '84 team pretty much "passed quietly and respectably from the game". Long time slugger, though no recognition.
2007-01-26 11:37:16
49.   Shaun P
And note that Whitaker hit .204/.350/.306 in his 3 postseason series vs a career .276/.363/.426. He did OK in the '84 Serious: .278/.409/.389.

37 Raines to me doesn't work because he was, of course, on the '98 Yankees, and he ought to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

This becomes null and void when he gets his 3000th hit (an immortal moment), but for now, how about Craig Biggio?

2007-01-26 11:43:13
50.   Sliced Bread
Jumping in late on the "great players who've never had a great moment" discussion.

How about Ichiro?

He did play for a great team, the 2001 Mariners who won 116 games, but he and his team did nothing in the playoffs after advancing past Cleveland.

Ichiro was pretty much a non-factor vs the Yanks in the ALCS (.222/.364/.278) and hasn't played October ball since.

And at the risk of committing Bronx Banter Blasphemy, Mattingly also fits some of the criteria.

Sure, we as Yankees fans have many memories of him (including his incredible Division Series against the M's in '95: .417/.440/.708)

but outside Yankeeland I think Mattingly could be regarded as a player who "took part in no immortal moments, and passed quietly and respectably from the game, vaguely admired by all" -- even if we Yanks fans consider him a Yankees immortal.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-01-26 11:51:26
51.   mickey1956
Just for discussion.

Joe Morgan in 50 postseason games.

.182 .323 .348

2007-01-26 11:56:39
52.   tommyl
51 But did you actually see those games. Joe Morgan fired up his entire team with his guttiness, or maybe they just figured time spent on base was time spent not listening to him speak in the dugout?
2007-01-26 11:58:19
53.   jayd
"great players who never had a great moment"

As Cliff pointed out Ted Williams -- because Williams' great moments, hitting .406