Thanks Alex and Cliff!

This is my first stop for Yankee information. As someone not from NY, I like the non-Yankee pieces, too.

Congrats Alex!

BTW...w/no-mo Coliseum Book Store, where to next?

do leave that light on

What happened to the Coliseum Book Store?

Oh, and, congrats AB. Four years is a long time! Good job.

We all know that we're the ones getting presents, though, and every day of the year. Free Belth and Corcoran for everybody!

Items from Baseball Musings:

1. The D-Rays won the negotiation rights to Akinori Iwamura with a bid of $4.5 million. Hey, did somebody misplace the decimal point? Or why didn't other teams bid tens of millions, you know, to get access to that lucrative 'Asian market'?

2. The Jays are about to sign Frank Thomas. Gulp.

3. David Pinto has some nice charts comparing teams' 2006 defense using Probabilistic Model of Range. The Yanks come out very well indeed, which probably won't surprise BB readers but would definitely surprise a lot of commentators who, well, who would never bother to read anything so geeky, so never mind.

Happy belated, Alex.
I come here for the Belth and Corcoran, and stay for the banter.
Just read your interview with Pat Jordan from a few years ago, which was a blast. Looking forward to the book.
Meantime, any idea where I could find his piece about Bernie?

Hey. The Coliseum closed cause they weren't making any money. To be honest, the Coliseum really closed when they left their original location on the corner of 57th street and Broadway. The new location, across the street from Bryant Park, was unispired. The place never was good for discounts and without the charm of the old location, it just seemed like another, bland, over-priced bookstore.

As far as Pat's story on Bernie goes, dag, I wish I could remember who he did that for. It was a family magazine if I recall correctly, not a sports mag. It's not going to be in "The Best of." The story is good but not great. But I recently read one of Pat's original manuscripts of that piece and there was some good stuff in there which I plan to excerpt next time there is a reason to talk about Bernie.

Congrats Alex and Cliff - as long as that light stays on, I'll be here. This is far and away the best Yanks' site on the web.

What's good, B! You and Cliff have made this really the first stop on any Yankee fan's vision quest. I honestly feel like I've been here forever. Onelove, ya'!

congrats. may there be many years still to come.

(and thanks, by the way.)

8 When it was on 57th, the Coliseum was one of the city's greatest bookstores, a browser's paradise. (Cramped and crowded, but what great bookstore isn't?) You're right, the death knell was when it moved from that location - though maybe the handwriting was on the wall once there was no longer a Coliseum...

At least the Strand is still there.

8 Looking forward to reading his Bernie observations, and his "Best of."

Thanks for this site Alex & Cliff! Congrats!

6 # 1 - I'm sure you're being cheeky, but also the difference between the best pitcher the nation has ever produced and a solid 3rd basemen is obvious, no? The bid for Troy Glaus would be substantially lower than for Roger Clemens at 26?

Hey Sliced. Cool. The guy has done some great work over the years. His stories on Steve Garvey and Steve Carlton gave him the most notoriety but there are other gems in there on Richard Williams--Venus and Serena's old man, OJ, Pete Rose, Jr, Wilt, Steve Dalkowski, Renee Richards and Carlton Fisk just to name a few.

Another cool feature of the book is that we're going to run Pat's original manuscript versions as opposed to the published magazine versions in a lot of cases. That's not something I would normally do but after reading both versions, in many cases, Pat's orginals are simply fuller, better-told stories. (Pat is not a verbose writer so the longer the story doesn't mean the more self-indulgent.)

For instance, he did a piece on Mike Veeck's daughter for "Good Housekeeping." Veeck was working for the D Rays at the time of the piece and his 7-year old daughter was going blind. One of the central conflicts of the story was between Veeck and his wife. Veeck wanted to take his daughter around the country so she could see as much of the world as possible before she lost her eye sight. His wife wanted to keep her close to home and have her life be as normal and oderly as possible. Pat was sympathetic with both points of view and their arguements were central to the story. But that was not the kind of thing "Good Housekeeping" wanted so they cut it. Well, the story simply isn't as good without that portion, so I chose the original.

The best damn Yankees blog period. I'm so glad I found this place this season, wish I'd found it sooner. Thanks Alex and Cliff, once again.

6 #1... I've been impressed with the Devil Rays' moves the past year or so, since the new management has stepped in. They need to seriously improve their starting pitching so they don't waste the prime years of some of their budding superstars. Hopefully this signing helps. Rumor Central on ESPN.com also reports they are looking to trade Baldelli to the Marlins for pitching. I think that's a no-brainer deal for both teams.

13 Yes... we'll always have the Strand!

Echoing the previous posts -- this is my #1 most visited website. Thanks for making it such!

Happy B-Day to the Banter and thanks to Alex, Cliff and all the regular posters for making this my one-stop-shop for all things Yankee.

16 Great concept going with the original manuscripts, great subjects, great writer. Can't wait.

Congrats on four years, Alex. You and Cliff complement each other well, and of course the "banterites" are top notch. The discussion in the comments is often spirited, but almost always respectful. A rarity, to be sure, especially in this anonymous virtual world we live in.

I wish you guys continued success, and I wish all the banterites years of Yankees chat, with maybe a championship celebration tossed in every now and then.

Even though I've never met anyone in person, I feel as though many of us have become friends who share one huge common passion and who agree or disagree with each other.

So, thank you very much Alex and Cliff, for building Banter as a bridge. And congrats.

Thanks Alex and Cliff for providing this great community for Yankee fans!

I too enjoy the fact that the discussion here is intelligent and how all the posters maintain a respectful environment. Keep up the great work and I look forward to many more years!

the devil rays need to be proactive right now

they should trade crawford and baldelli

maybe they get ervin santana and scott olson and some more pitching for them

they're trading good players but they have of's.

u take those 2 and put them with kazmir and u got something brewing.

sorry to interrupt the much deserved lovefest, but i just read an article and needed to share it. (in the spirit of the described cameraderie.)

warning: this item contains pavano

http://tinyurl.com/y324o6

it contains pavano?

does it come with bandages, ben-gay, and aspirin?

26 Even with the warning, that still scared the kids in the house.

I will tell you what I think when September comes or maybe even in March. Right now, I need not to be scared.

25 But what would that accomplish, really? Those two are their best proven run producers, and Kazmir is their number 1; you trade them all for pitching and then what? A top-shelf pitching staff and barely anything else? Pitching can put you over the top, but c'mon, you need to score runs for them, too.

Not that I wouldn't mind going after those three if they were offered, but they'd have to be either audacious or complete idiots to put them up and expect equal value.

Congrats guys on 4 years. You have led where many have followed. Keep up the great work.

26 Great news!

"Pavano's legs are now equal in length"

29 In 25 he is saying to keep kazmir and pair him with the new pitchers.

29

obv keep kazmir. but he needs some help. what good does having crawford and baldelli do them if they still cant pitch?

they have a some good of prospects like young, dukes and can even move upton there. or they sign a dellucci and put him in left. you lose some but you gain much more with some young power arms.

unfortunately i think the devil rays will chicken out and not make any moves. and keep their guys and have another yr of winning 68 games.

31 Oh, my bad.

26 Am I the only one reading that who's head is spinning like a 78 record right now?

And does this imply that if we were in a 'Yo Mama' contest, he'd have been making snaps on his own mother?

Alex and Cliff, congrats on the 4 years. You produce a very high quality product, very consistently. It isn't easy, and I very happy for your success.

32, etc, re: Devil Rays
I realized later that Iwamura is a third baseman, which is very interesting, given that they have a logjam of left-side infielders, with Zobrist and Upton blocking Joel Guzman (a 22 yr old at AAA). What signing the Japanese 3B tells me is that they are looking to trade Balldelli or Upton, and as I said the Marlins are interested in Baldelli. The Marlins have no CF and so much pitching that their AA team set all kinds of records last season. Then move Crawford to CF and Upton to RF. Sounds like a good plan to me. I don't know why I'm so interested, but when I play baseball video games, I always use the Marlins or Devil Rays, cause I like the challenge of building the team into a dynasty.

Good lord, our starting rotation situation is horrible that I actually sometimes find myself thinking, "Well, Pavano could be good next year."

35

if the rays had any foresight they'd shake things up. they have the pieces in place to be a decent team if they make the right trades.

on the flip side i hope they dont because i like pounding on the cupcakes

luckily cash doesnt want to count on pavano. treating him as a bonus which is the way to go.

36 i suppose that is technically a possibility.

i wonder what cash has up his sleeves for the rotation.

because you have to figure hes going after 2 guys. whether it be free agents or trades.

35 37 etc - My first thought was, when and why has this place become Rays Banter? My second thought was that you've forgotten about Evan Longoria (3B), Reid Brignac (SS), and some kid named Young who is clearly their RF of the future. I'll bet the DRays trade Upton and Baldelli for two pitchers, either in separate deals or as a package. At least one of them is going to Miami, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was Upton, only because he makes a lot less than Rocco does.

If I had to pick a destination for Rocco, I'd guess the Angels, only because he's their type of hitter (contact guy) and they too could use a CF.

I love the fact you have created a forum for true Yankee fans, many of whom are both well-spoken and informed on the subjects. Also, kudos on the opportunities that have been afforded to you as a result of your success with Bronx Banter.

As for Matsuzaka issue, I point and laugh at the Red Sox! Enjoy spending $50 million minimally on a question mark. I may not know much at all about the Japanese League, but I know for SURE it is not the Major League. Japanese players have been highly touted many times before, and only two (Ichiro and Godzilla) have been anywhere near as productive as scouts say they will be. Note, both are hitters, which I believe is a lot more stat-dependable than pitching.

Last time I checked, there isn't a steroid scandal in Japan. Japanese pitchers aren't dealing with juiced up monsters who can hit the ball 450 feet any time they get a good crack on a ball. Matsuzaka may be solid, but I'd take Barry Zito or Jason Schmidt, proven stars in America, over an unproven multi-million dollar gamble such as Matsuzaka anyday.

Evil Empire my ass. Go Yanx!!

Cheers to Alex & Cliff, on their 4th anniversary!! Bronx Banter is the first site that I always check in the am. As an occasional poster, I really enjoy the "banter" amongst all the passionate Yankee fans!!

I'm a relative newcomer here, but I'd still like to offer my congratulations for 4 years.

Keep up the good work, guys.

As for Pavano, Cliff posted a writeup on Meat not too long after he was signed.

From the Big Red Blog archives;
http://cliffordsbrb.blogspot.com/2004_12_12_cliffordsbrb_archive.html

The Banter has been set as my Home Page for awhile now and I wouldn't have it any other way. Being on the west coast, I usually don't get to jump into the comments until late in the discussion. So if, Alex and Cliff, you guys could just post your articles at about 12 in the afternoon EST, that would be great. All kidding aside, thanks guys.

Defintely the best Yankee bantering around. Thnaks for a great site!

36 39 I disagree pretty hard regarding the state of the rotation. I'd be fine going in to the season just as it is. Why? The offense!

This team is going to win a bunch of games with league average pitching. Between:

1) Wang
2) Moose
3) Hughes
4) Unit
5) Rasner/Karstens
6) Pavano
7) Sanchez
8) Clippard

From everything we've seen, they'll be fine! And that's even if they don't get much from Unit OR Pavano.

Between Wang and Moose, they'll get the same pitching with one improving slightly and the other decling slightly.

Hughes is the best pictching prospect in all of baseball. His ceiling projects higher than the expensive sushi in Boston. His starts weren't just good last year, they were phenom-enal. And he's going to be in the rotation by June.

Karstens and/or Rasner will give enough league average starts between them (based on their performance last year) that they will help.

And at the 5th slot, they'll get enough from Unit and Pavano, to win more than half of the games there. Worst case, Sanchez is close and Clippard may be by the middle of the year. Or either of them could be traded mid-year, for a "proven" guy.

Now all that said, sure they could go out and pay a bunch to get a #2 or #3, like Zito, or overpay for a #5 like Lilly or Meche. Sure why, not? But it isn't necessary. Even still, do any of those guys break the top three in October? Maybe Zito, but even then I'm not convinced he'd pitch better than Wang, Moose, or Hughes. So basically they'd be paying $75 million for a guy that might start one or two games in October? Meh...

40 I like to think of myself as an Equal Opportunity Banterer. Plus I've had a good look at those Tampa youngins, watching them in Durham. B.J. Upton hit a walk off grand slam in the Bulls' home opener last season. The offense, between Upton, Zobrist, Young, and Dukes was incredible. Their pitching, well... let's just say that Doug Waecter is their top starter. Ugh.

45 I agree with you, up to a point. Those pitchers would make a servicable (and relatively cheap) starting rotation, especially given the offense the team is likely to produce. However, I would still like to see the Yanks add one more middle of the rotation guy, so long as they don't overpay. Who that guy might be is a mystery- I don't particularly like Zito or Schmidt, Clemens and Pettitte would both be mistakes, and everyone else is a Jaret Wright-type signing waiting to happen. If Cashman feels like I do, I wouldn't be surprised to see a deal made this year. Sending Melky and Clippard to the Marlins for Willis or to the Tigers for Bonderman or to the ChiSox for Buerhle would be my first instincts. I would be sad to see Melky go... but he's expendable this year and solid OFs aren't as scarce as solid SPs. Plus I'd love to see Jose Tabata in RF at Yankee Stadium as early as 2008.

Jim Dean:

I appreciate your optimism, but you are, of course, basing all of it on the idea that our pitching staff will be healthy. Imagine either Wang or Mussina going down for an extended period of time. In the blink of an eye our staff would appear decimated.

Our offense is stacked. It is brimming with power goodness. All we need is pitching. The more the merrier, as they say. It is more than apparent we need improvements in that department. Come October, pitching wins. Don't tell me you would not appreciate seeing a proven hurler such as Zito in pinstripes when it came down to the nitty gritty!

after i found the banter, i spent the next 4 days at work catching up on all the previous posts.

thanks, guys.

Congrats Alex/Cliff, Jus tthink how different the world was 4 years ago, yet how very much the same it was....

45 If /When Hughes comes up, it won't be until at least June, if not later. Remember, temper oyur expectations here, he hasn't pitched above class AA yet, has shown to need some adjustment time at each level, and hasn't logged enough innings to be able to pitch a full season yet. I expect him to come up next year, but its really 2008 that we will beable to judge him...

So it should be more of:
Wang
Moose
Unit
Karstens/Rasner
Pavano/Hughes/Proctor

47 You mean like his start agains the Tigers this year when he went less than 4 innings and gave up 5 runs on 7 hits? Or when he crumbled against the Red Sox in 2003, blowing all of a 3-0 A's lead in the 6th inning?

Getting away from the small sample size of the post-season... Zito still walks the world (99 BB in 212 IP) and gives up gopherballs at near-Beckett like frequencies (average of 27 over the last three seasons). Getting him out of pitcher friendly Oakland will do the same to him as it did to his buddies Hudson and Mulder. This is supported by his Defense Independent Pitching, which I reported yesterday as sitting 47th out of 50 qualified pitchers in the AL.

Sure, he eats innings, but I think Yankees fans would grow tired of him very quickly. Not to mention the fact that his price is likely to be in the $17 mil/year range. No thank you.

46 That's the thing - they scored over 900 runs without Abreu and Matsui for over half the season. A decent rotation is more than enough - but sure go get an overpriced #5, I just don't think it's necessary.

47 I don't think it's optimism. Rasner/Karsten can be #5 starters. They're Ted Lilly/Jaret Wright without the price tag.

Hughes is Matsuzaka, all potential and projection - indeed Hughes projects higher, and again without the price tag. Just adding Hughes is a huge upgrade from last year.

And between Unit and Pavano, they get enough decent starts to win more than they lose.

After that Sanchez and Clippard may be ready in case of injuries. If not you trade them for a "proven" guy.

Even still, asking if Wang or Moose gets hurt is like asking if Santana or Schilling get hurt. If that happens, the Yanks deal with it then - give some kids a shot or again, trade for a proven guy. They COULD always make a move now, either a free agent or in a trade, but I just don't think it's necessary.

51 On what are you basing your claim that Hughes projects higher than Matsuzaka? I know the Baseball America people,