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. . . And That's The Word
2006-11-10 06:49
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

Steve Swindal, Randy Levine, and Brian Cashman made a promotional appearance in Staten Island yesterday to announce the fact that the Yankees have bought their New York Penn League affiliate. As part of the deal, the Staten Island Yankees will host a Yankees Old Timers Game next summer and SI Yankees season ticket holders will have special access to both regular and postseason tickets in the Bronx. I'd be all over that if it weren't for the fact that I just can't get hyped over players in short season A-ball, no matter what their prospect status.

At any rate, the event gave reporters a chance to pepper the Yankee GM with questions, which is why you'll read the same quotes from him in all of the papers this morning, or you could just cut to the chase and check out Peter Abraham's handy summary.

Cashman didn't say anything groundbreaking, though he did say that he considers Jason Giambi the team's designated hitter and is in the market for a right-handed-hitting first baseman (the unspoken part of that being that Andy Phillips had his chance and blew it).

In the meantime, we can all continue to wear out the refresh buttons on our browsers waiting for news on Daisuke Matsuzaka or word of a Sheffield trade. Speaking of the latter, J.D. Drew just opted out of the remainder of his contract with the Dodgers, leaving L.A. with Andre Ethier as their best under-contract outfielder. Sheff tends to burn his bridges, but the Dodgers had a different manager, GM, and owner when he was last there. I'm not saying Sheffield is likely to head back to L.A., but the Dodgers could enter the discussion, further driving up his price. Which, of course, means we'll have longer to wait before having any actual news on the Yankees' most recent right-handed first baseman.

The next bit of news we're likely to get will be the Yankees' decision on Jaret Wright's option, which must come no later than Sunday. Cashman didn't tip his hand yesterday, but I'm in favor of the Yankees hanging on to Wright, largely because of the size of his buyout. Wright's option is for $7 million, but the Yankees will have to pay $4 million of that to make him go away. That $4 million is a sunk cost, which means that keeping Wright really only costs the Yankees $3 million, which is a perfectly fair price for the sort of performance he turned in last year (27 starts, a roughly league-average ERA). Rodrigo Lopez, Bruce Chen, Cory Lidle, Jason Johnson, Gil Meche, and Carlos Silva are just a few of the pitchers who earned similar, but larger amounts in 2006, none of whom posted a higher ERA+ than Wright.

If you rank the pitchers the Yankees have under contract for next year by career major league starts, the fourth name on the list--after Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, and Chien-Ming Wang--is Kyle Farnsworth. Rank them by major league starts in 2006 and the list is Johnson, Wang, then Jeffrey Karstens with six. And Johnson just had back surgery. Yes, Mike Mussina is likely to join that group shortly, and with Karstens, Darrell Rasner, Philip Hughes, Tyler Clippard, and, heck, even Sean Henn in the queue the Yankees have a handful of rookies who could outperform Wright in 2007. But for $3 million it seems silly not to hold on to a live arm that, if nothing else, could hold a spot for Johnson's rehab or a few warm up starts for Hughes in Scranton during April and May, then bringing a useful bench player or reliever in a trade. Heck, if the Matsuzaka deal pans out, Cashman just might get more for Sheff and Wright than Pat Gillick did for Abreu and Lidle, despite the fact that Gillick was dealing better players with more leverage.

Comments (118)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-11-10 08:07:12
1.   kylepetterson
First of all: First post + me = I AM AWESOME.
2006-11-10 08:07:17
2.   wsporter
First, to our nations veterans - Thank You.

Cliff what caught my eye was "...Gillick was dealing better players with more leverage". Is that a rejoinder to Sheff and his Abreu comments? Is the Abreu/Lidle combo better than a Sheff/Wright combo? Other than Sheff's age and injury status he seems to be at least the equal of if not superior to Abreu. I think Lidle and Wright are arguably a wash. Is the difference age and injury status?

2006-11-10 08:09:06
3.   kylepetterson
Second of all: I've said a couple times already, but I will be glad if they do keep Wright. He's a mostly reliable end of the rotation guy. Nothing fancy, but he will usually keep you in the game.
2006-11-10 08:13:14
4.   kylepetterson
3 If we don't need that, then we should be in pretty good shape.

PS. Does my window say that Stepping Up was written by Tim McCarver? Over to the right....up a little bit....there it is.

2006-11-10 08:16:09
5.   Jim Dean
Excellent analysis Cliff. I hope the trades work out exactly in that way, though I think the chance are greater that Wright is with the team in Spetember than Pavano, even if it's as Rasner, Karstens, or Clippard's expense.

wsport - Abreu is better than Shef, at this point, and Goldman breaks it down in his latest blog. Abreu = +defense, speed, and attitude which more than make up for the lack of power. I think career EQA is .319 (Shef) vs. .314

2006-11-10 08:16:56
6.   Jim Dean
And age: Bobby is five years younger.
2006-11-10 08:17:09
7.   Cliff Corcoran
3 He was last year (reliable), but for most of his career he's been anything but. I still think he's worth $3 million given his performance in two of the last three years and the Yankees scary rotation situation.

2 Nice catch. Yes, the comparison is pretty much a wash but given Sheffield's age and injury as well as Wright's injury history he and Wright are definitely the lesser pair. I certainly expect Abreu to outproduce Sheffield in 2007, no matter where Sheff ultimately lands.

2006-11-10 08:19:20
8.   Cliff Corcoran
4 McCarver wrote the forward.
2006-11-10 08:27:52
9.   Yankee Fan In Boston
there's more talk about grumpy sheffield going to the tigers...

there was talk of the tigers shopping bonderman...

i will leave those ingredients to percolate.

(how long could it possibly take for a group of guys to agree to take millions and millions of dollars?)

2006-11-10 08:33:02
10.   Cliff Corcoran
While we're busy conjuring up random rumors out of nothingness, here's a thought on Matsuzaka: If the rights to to another team, the Yankees use Sheffield and cash to trade for the right to negotiate with Matsuzaka, much like they did when they sent Rueben Rivera and friends to the Padres for Homer Bush and the rights to Irabu. Could happen.
2006-11-10 08:36:53
11.   jakewoods
why would the yanks want matusaka badly and not bid really high on him?

why would they trade useful pieces for something that would only cost them money?

broxton for sheff. u heard it here first. drew opting out was the best thing to happen to the dodgers. they save 30+ mill and now can retool around that by going after zito and schmidt and aramis ramirez

2006-11-10 08:37:22
12.   wsporter
9 Makes me wonder if somebody isn't cooking some rottten fish cake! They had to have a threshold number in place under which they determined they would not go prior to the bidding process starting. That number was either met or it wasn't. What's to discuss I wonder?
2006-11-10 08:37:50
13.   Nick from Washington Heights
Cliff, couldn't Drew's status as a free agent actually depress the market for Sheff? A team like the Tigers, rumored to be one of the trade partners, could turn to pursuing Drew instaed of Sheff.
2006-11-10 08:41:11
14.   Yankee Fan In Boston
10 sheffield to tigers articles appearing today:
http://tinyurl.com/yh6yup
http://tinyurl.com/yj22yn

there were indeed rumors last week or the week before about the yankees lusting after bonderman, so while it may indeed be a longshot, i wouldn't rule out the abilities of a certain mr. ca$hman.

2006-11-10 08:42:25
15.   jakewoods
i think drews going to the red sox.

drew being on the market helps the sheff market. why pay drew 60 for 5 yrs when u can have sheff for 1 for 8 mill? plus u know sheffs a gamer.

2006-11-10 08:51:41
16.   Schteeve
1) I'm glad to see Cashman so unequivocal on the A-Rod thing. Trading A-Rod would be the stupidest move the Yankees could make, period.

2) I'm starting to get a little skittish on the Matsuzaka front. It's a truckful of money to invest in a guy who is unproven. We see pitchers who look great in the NL come to the AL and struggle, this guy is coming from a different league. No matter how much Mike Plugh guarantees us that the guy is going to be an ace in MLB, I won't be convinced until I see it with my own eyes. I won't be sad if we get him, but I won't be heartbroken if we don't.

2006-11-10 08:58:43
17.   Yankee Fan In Boston
here's the latest bonderman to NY article i could find, although the speculation included rodriguez:
http://www.gothambaseball.com/news/1162844521.php
2006-11-10 09:03:21
18.   Bluebleeder87
i hope the Dodgers don't go after Sheff but you never know
2006-11-10 09:11:40
19.   pistolpete
10 Someone on XM mentioned that as a possibility - another team picking up D-Mat (sorry) to use in a trade with the Yankees.

I believe the specific example was the Angels getting him to use in a trade for A-Rod.

But I just can't see anyone spending all that money just for the chance to negotiate, then trade him away anyway...

2006-11-10 09:15:11
20.   mehmattski
16 To be fair, there ARE more stupid (stupider?) moves. Such as signing Barry Bonds. Trading Phil Hughes for anyone not named Johan Santana or Albert Pujols. Selling the naming rights to the new Yankee Stadium (say hello to Donald Trump Stadium?). So I think trading A-Rod would have to be #4. :)

As for Matsuzaka... I think the skittishness is normal. By July you'll either be glad the Yankees got him or wishing he was on your team. I, for one, am going to hedge my bets and at draft him in the second round for next years' fantasy baseball.

2006-11-10 09:20:28
21.   Schteeve
20 I disagree that signing Bonds or trading Hughes would be more stupid than trading A-Rod.

-Bonds would be a feared presence in the middle of an already feared lineup.

-Hughes, for all the upside, is still unproven at the MLB level.

We know what A-Rod can do. We know that in his lousiest season ever, he was one of the best hitters in the league. Without him, we have almost zero right handed power in the lineup.

I'm with you on the naming rights. :)

As for D-Mat, I'll remain skeptical. I dont' really believe he will live up to the hype. Which doesn't mean he won't be real good, but the hype is ridiculous.

2006-11-10 09:26:20
22.   kylepetterson
21 In my short time as a Yankees fan they have done some things that I didn't like for whatever reason. That being said, there are a lot of really dumb things that this team can still do and I will continue to support them. But, the day that Bonds steps onto the field at Yankee Stadium wearing pinstripes is the day I trade in my Yankee caps.
2006-11-10 09:41:04
23.   Cliff Corcoran
Courtesy of Paul Lukas at the Uni Watch blog:

http://tinyurl.com/y636am

2006-11-10 09:46:38
24.   Jen
Buster Olney on 1050am is saying that Boston may have won the Matsuzaka bid.
2006-11-10 09:48:00
25.   kylepetterson
23 Let's see, I paid $18 for my "authentic" NY hat new....so....can I bid $7.50?
2006-11-10 09:51:57
26.   Bluebleeder87
by Cliff Corcoran??

did you kid nap Alex or something?

2006-11-10 09:52:16
27.   Sliced Bread
24 who does Buster attribute that to?
2006-11-10 09:54:20
28.   kylepetterson
26 No, I did.
2006-11-10 09:59:57
29.   YankeeInMichigan
I'm disappointed to see Giambi labeled as a full time DH. With 3 33-year olds in the starting outfield and a fourth outfielder as reliable as Melky, you would like to use the DH spot to keep the starters' legs fresh. The "new first baseman" should have a good enough glove to be a defensive replacement and should hit well enough to man the position on Jason's DH days (i.e. when Wang is pitching). Phillips and Wilson both seem to have the proper resumes for this role, but both seem to have blown their auditions.

Sure, Giambi's body is showing signs of wear, but I don't think that any National League team would think twice about keeping him on the roster as the regular 1st baseman.

2006-11-10 10:01:49
30.   Sliced Bread
26 "kid nap?" Are you kidding or napping, Bluebleeder?
2006-11-10 10:08:44
31.   mehmattski
21 I figured you would say something like that. Although if the Yankees signed Bonds, they'd need to petition the Owners to allow more than one DH. In fact, why not switch to some sort of system with dedicated offense and defense.

You think the hype for Matsuzaka is bad... just imagine what the hype will be if Hughes spends all of 2007 in the minors, and then is expected to be the Yanks' ace/savior/best pitcher of all time in 2008. Right now, my call is that Matsuzaka has an 80% chance of fullfilling the #1/#2 starter hype immediately. Hughes is further down at like 60%, because he's young and a lot can happen. Therefore my completely baseless and arbitrary predictions suggest that there is a 92% chance that at least one of them will be an ace.

If you really think about it, there are very few pitchers you can point at and say that they are both "proven" and "desirable." That is, they have about 3 years of success at a high level and are under 35. My list would be: Santana, Carpenter, Oswalt, Halladay. If all players were available, is there anyone outside of those four who would immediately make most fans happy?

2006-11-10 10:10:45
32.   Count Zero
27 "But Olney is reporting that according to Major League Baseball officials who are monitoring the bidding, the Red Sox may have posted the top bid, with a figure between $38 million and $45 million."
2006-11-10 10:11:57
33.   RIYank
ESPN radio also has the rumor that the BoSox have won the bidding. Attributed to "insiders". They say Theo bid $40 million.
2006-11-10 10:12:25
34.   Sliced Bread
32 yowza
2006-11-10 10:14:38
35.   jayd
I don't want to say you heard it here first but I am getting vibrations that that Texas fruitcake who gave arod the big salary is about to bestow upon the seibu lions some ungodly amount of cash to purchase the imaginary cahones and the rights to Matsuzaka. That nitwit is going to 30 million????? for just the rights to sign him???!!!! You have got to be kidding me. I am disappointed because the logical stage for Matsuzaka is New York -- can't see the Japanese tourists heading out to Arlington TX. Spoil my offseason if it happens.
2006-11-10 10:15:29
36.   Yankee Fan In Boston
32 matsuzaka will be the biggest failure ever. he's a bum.

(i am crying on the inside.)

2006-11-10 10:16:27
37.   jayd
Now the red sox getting him I might enjoy.
2006-11-10 10:16:33
38.   Count Zero
And by the way, may I just say that if that's true, the Red Sox are insane. If they sign him to say...4 years at $12 million per, that would make the total between $86 and $93 million. Or, put another way, $21-23 million per year. For a guy who's never pitched a day in the majors.

ROFLMAO Theo is trying to save his job -- He's all in.

2006-11-10 10:18:35
39.   jayd
36 Can you imagine when Alex takes the first gyro pitch in mlb history over the monster?
2006-11-10 10:23:39
40.   Sliced Bread
[38} 4 years at $12 mill won't do it.
Boras knows the Yanks would do 5/$15 mill.
My guess is Boston won't close the deal and Matsuzaka will be a free agent (Yankee in waiting) this time next year.
2006-11-10 10:29:13
41.   Sliced Bread
It's a good move by Theo, even if everybody saw it coming.
This delays Matsuzaka to the Bronx for a year.
Boston will not close the deal with Matsuzaka.
I suspect this is why no decision has been announced yet.

The boy in the grrilla suit has finally stopped playing possum.

2006-11-10 10:30:39
42.   Yankee Fan In Boston
until i hear something official, i'm puting away my cyanide capsules. first it was arizona, then the angels, then texas, and now it's boston.

ugh.

2006-11-10 10:32:07
43.   Jim Dean
No one mentioned that just because someone bids more than the Yanks, it doesn't mean they sign him.

1) As Cliff indicates, they could trade those rights, then the Yanks pay the posting fee and the contract. And Team A gets something in return.

2) Team A could also bid some ridiculous amount, fail to sign him and he just goes back to Japan for a year. Then it's a free market with negotiable rates.

Also, don't forget that Team A could pay extra because it allows them immediate opportunities in the Japanaese market. DM's yearly price comes down because he will bring in extra revenue.

2006-11-10 10:40:01
44.   yankz
Didn't MLB say there would be some form of punishment if a team bid outrageously just to block him from coming here?
2006-11-10 10:40:43
45.   Simone
Nice pick up for the Red Sox if true. $40 million is boat load of cash. Red Sox fans better shut up about the Yankees buying players after this one. Matsuzaka will be a good pitcher in MLB.
2006-11-10 10:48:03
46.   RIYank
41 Jeez, I never thought of that. Sliced, I'm sure you're right.

In the first place (and how come nobody said this months ago?), it's just antecedently very unlikely that a team that pays a huge amount for the bidding rights will then also offer a big enough salary to make it worth it to Matsusaka to accept. This is now so obvious I feel like my head is going to explode. And in the second place, since Theo knows this, of course he's going to place a huge bid to make sure nobody gets a 'steal'.

We're all suckers.

2006-11-10 10:49:13
47.   jakewoods
i didnt think the sox would go for 40 mill

if they sign him they have to pay 5 yrs min 55 mill

so basically 90 mill for 5 yrs

wow

2006-11-10 10:50:17
48.   jakewoods
u know that they can pass on the first bid if they think its not in good faith

maybe thats why the wait

2006-11-10 10:51:47
49.   Yankee Fan In Boston
46 it has been batted around here before. i think it was the consensus that angering scott boras would be counter-productive for your team in the long run. and, next year, when the kid is a free agent and can choose where he plays in the US, he'll likely choose the yankees. (especially if the sox are playing with him right now.)
2006-11-10 10:54:29
50.   Marcus
44 I read there is a clause in the posting rules that state the team that wins the posting must negotiate in good faith with the player. If they don't, MLB and the Japanese team have the option to rescind the exclusive negotiating rights and give them to the next highest bid.

Now, I think the winner would have to be very obvious (and foolish) for this clause to take effect, but it is stated in the rules. I can't seem to find the full set of rules online at the moment, however. Anyone know where to find them?

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-11-10 10:55:30
51.   Sliced Bread
44 MLB could determine that $40 million isn't "outrageous," but "aggressively competitive" and Sox wouldn't be punished for blocking Matsuzaka to Yanks.
It's also possible that Boston (if they are the highest bidder) will trade (see sell) the rights to negotiate with Matsuzaka to another team (not named the New York Yankees).
My guess is, this will come down to: how much does Matsuzaka want to be a Yankee?
If he wants to pitch in the Bronx, he and Boras won't sign with another team, and he'll wait until next year.
But the only way Seibu gets anything for him is if he signs with someone over the next few weeks.
2006-11-10 10:56:14
52.   RIYank
47 And it just doesn't make sense. If Theo has $90 mil to offer, couldn't he tell Boras to wait until next year and the Sox will give Matsuzaka $80 mil of it in salary instead of paying off the Lions? What, Boras and his client would turn that down?

And if Theo's afraid that if he bids $80 million next year when Mats is a free agent, someone will outbid him, then doesn't Boras know that too? I can't see how this deal gets made, no matter who wins the bidding. Unless the winning bid is much lower than people are saying.

2006-11-10 10:58:44
53.   Count Zero
41 That is also a viable possibility. By keeping D-Mat out of everyone else's hands, he makes it likely that Red Sox fans won't enter the season already upset with him. :-)

Theo is definitely headed into a make or break this year. Sox fans are still pissed about his inaction before the trade deadline last year -- he has a very short rope in '07. If the Sox fail to make the playoffs again, he is 95% out of a job.

45 If Sliced is calling the numbers right, for $115 million Matsuzaka will have to be a lot better than a good MLB pitcher. He needs to be a CY candidate every year. And people are saying Zito is a bad move at 5x15. What is 5x15+40 for a "good" pitcher? LOL

2006-11-10 11:02:55
54.   Yankee Fan In Boston
http://tinyurl.com/yelnh4

anything is still possible.

2006-11-10 11:03:35
55.   jakewoods
Schilling, Beckett, Papelbon, D Mat

Not a bad front four.

certainly beats anything we have

2006-11-10 11:04:20
56.   RIYank
49 I don't see how anyone's angering Boras. I figure Boras must know very well that when the bidding gets up so high, it makes it economically ridiculous for Matsuzaka to sign this year. Just split the bid in half and let the winning team keep half and give the other half to Matsuzaka next year. The Lions lose their windfall, but the other parties get to split it.
2006-11-10 11:04:27
57.   jakewoods
u win with power arms and great pitching.

we dont have anything close to that right now. and we cant get it on the free agent list.

disappointing

2006-11-10 11:05:41
58.   jakewoods
why would boras cut a side deal with any team???

if he doesnt sign this yr he becomes a free agent next yr and then he can get much more than people are offering now

makes no sense to cut any deal to screw over the seibu people.

2006-11-10 11:08:06
59.   RIYank
58 why would boras cut a side deal with any team???
To make more money.
Duh.
2006-11-10 11:08:10
60.   kylepetterson
55 Especially when Schill hits the DL and Beckettttt goes back to giving up 6 or 7 homers a game.
2006-11-10 11:08:13
61.   Jim Dean
Would this be the first time a player is posted but not signed? If contract isn't worked out, couldn't MLB use that a precendent to to accept the next highest bid?

Basically if he doesn't sign with the first team, I think that leaves the door open for baseball to invoke that clause, and allow Seibu to accept the next highest bid. Indeed, I see no reason why it couldn't continue like that. That allows baseball to manage DM's salary according to market value, and for Seibu to still collect payment. Of course, DM still maintains his right to play the season in Japan and enter as a true free agent next year, which is more in line with what Boras is most comfortable with.

2006-11-10 11:08:49
62.   unpopster
55 a thought on papelbon: who says that his closer performance will translate to a starter role? It's a whole lot easier to dominate a team for 3 batters in the 9th than for 5+ innings. I'm not solf on the future prospects of Papelbon being an elite starter.
2006-11-10 11:10:30
63.   kylepetterson
61 That kind of makes some sense....so probably no.

PS love your assorted breakfast meats. They're the best.

2006-11-10 11:12:11
64.   Yankee Fan In Boston
56 i don't follow that. aren't they bidding for the rights to negotiate a deal? why would you bid at a level that would eliminate any possibility to sign the player? that is not the point of the process, and it would push the player's eligibility back a year.
boras gets a hefty percentage of his clients' pay. if they don't make MLB money, he doesn't make MLB agent money. if i were him, and a team intentionally kept a high profile client from a high profile payday (and thus preventing me from cashing in), i'd be likely to hold a grudge. i wouldn't want to do business with that team in the future.
2006-11-10 11:12:45
65.   jakewoods
papelbon has a lot of talent. i dont think he'd have much trouble being a starter.

the only concern is his shoulder.

agents dont cut side deals with teams. what if next the mets offer d mat 150 mill? does boras keep his side deal and screw his client over?

those things dont happen. if word of that got out he wouldnt get any clients. he'd lose his credibility and integrity

2006-11-10 11:17:11
66.   kylepetterson
6555 So out of the 4 pitchers you've mentioned, 1 has been hurt on and off for the last couple years, 1 has sucked on and off (mostly on) for the last couple years, 1 has a recent shoulder issue and is switching from closer to starter, and the other has yet to pitch an inning in a MLB game. Wow. When you put it that way, we should be really afraid.
2006-11-10 11:20:08
67.   RIYank
64 I don't get you. I'm saying that when the bidding gets this high, it makes no economic sense for the team to then offer a salary that it makes sense for Matsuzaka to accept.

Obviously, Boras gets a hefty chunk of his client's pay. That's why he's going to make darn sure the pay is as high as possible. Boras gets no cut of the posting fee. So if a team is willing to pony up $X posting plus $Y salary, it's in Boras's interest to get them instead to pay $(X+Y) next year in salary alone. He can give them a big discount next year, say Y/2, and still come out way ahead by waiting.

By the way, 61, that does sound logical, but according to Mike Plugh (at Matsuzaka Watch),

"5. The winner will have 30 days to negotiate with Matsuzaka and Boras, before losing his rights.
6. If that happens, he MUST go back and pitch in Japan in 2007."

2006-11-10 11:23:46
68.   jakewoods
On paper I'd take the Boston four over our four right now. What pitcher isnt an injury risk?

Beckett was awful last yr but the guy has great stuff and has won big games in the past (ie world series sniff sniff)

Nothing is guaranteed in baseball but on paper on Nov 10 I'd give them the egde in starting pitching.

Now Schilling may hit a wall, Beckett may have a 2 cent head, Papelbon might not translate great 9th innings for a full 9 innings but it is what it is.

2006-11-10 11:27:12
69.   Jim Dean
63 Thanks - not that I haven't got before. Growing up James Dean, luckily you have some choices - Jimmy means people love my sausage (the ladies especially do); James means I'm a rebel without a cause. I chose Jim.

67 Unless baseball rules it wasn't in good faith. That's very much open to interpretation. And if there's no precedent, they could rule that because a contact wasn't reached it wasn't a good faith bid.

Bottom line: In thirty days, we're still in december - plenty of time for another deal to get done. Given that more people will make money (MLB, Seibu, DM) if said deal gets done, baseball tries to enable it, especially since MLB is better able to control his salary. Next year, all the power is in Boras' hands.

2006-11-10 11:27:37
70.   Yankee Fan In Boston
67 i think i get what you are saying now. however, nobody is going to pay this kid $90M before he tosses a ball in MLB. not even next year. if the bids were this high, GMs are insane.
and if he's holding out to get $45M next year, why even bother going through this whole process? his contract will only be worth roughly that amount anyway.
i don't trust this report or these "sources."
the sox may have won the bidding, but if they want matsuzaka, they'd better sign him now.
that's all i'm saying.
2006-11-10 11:31:41
71.   kylepetterson
69 The best jokes are the ones people know are coming but hope that they aren't.
2006-11-10 11:33:18
72.   RIYank
69 Okay, I see what you mean. A loophole.
70 I'm with you now. If someone really bids $40 million, that's nuts or somehow devious.
I can see $20 million, maybe. Sitting out a year costs a bunch of that, plus there would be a chance of injury.
2006-11-10 11:33:45
73.   jakewoods
I am starting to be skeptical of these sources now especially since no one in Boston especially the Globe had anything even close to this.

Heres the thing. this kid doesnt get any of the posting fee. that all goes to seibu. he gets his own contract.

Now he may get a 5 yr 75 mill roy oswalt deal. or he may take a 3 yr deal for 33. that way hes a free agent again at 29, in his prime.

2006-11-10 11:34:53
74.   jakewoods
heres another thing. seibu doesnt get a dime if he doesnt sign with a team. so if they are doing all of this i would think they would want to make the 20+ mill or the 40+ or whatever it is.

they get nothing if he plays out the yr in japan and signs next yr.

2006-11-10 11:46:21
75.   jonnystrongleg
The only reason the Red Sox owner has this franchise is that he promised Bud he wouldn't bust the cap on an annual basis keeping up with the Yanks, despite the fact the he could legitimately afford to do so.

This huge lump sum does not count towards the salary structure so I have no trouble believing the Red Sox put in a huge bid and intend to negotiate a multi year contract.

2006-11-10 11:47:35
76.   jakewoods
Good move for the Sox.

Now Plan B. Schmidt or Zito?

Maybe we'll see a Sheff for Bonderman soon too.

2006-11-10 11:47:42
77.   Yankee Fan In Boston
75 damn you and your logic...
2006-11-10 12:03:00
78.   wsporter
Has anyone seen any confirmation anywhere? I read BO's piece and it says "may have". Has anyone monitoring the bids estimated or discovered the Yankees' bid amount? BO doesn't strike me as the type to jump at straws but there doesn't seem to be anything else out there.
2006-11-10 12:06:08
79.   Yankee Fan In Boston
78 two days ago i read a piece that said that high bids "may be" as low as $11M.

other pieces said tha they "might be" "around" $20M "or more".

i don't think that anybody knows anything.

but what do i know?

(nothing.)

2006-11-10 12:06:31
80.   Cliff Corcoran
76 Zito
2006-11-10 12:12:57
81.   Jim Dean
81 I second that. He'll put in Moose like numbers for about the same price. He'll be a solid #3, with 200 innings a year, for the length of the contract.
2006-11-10 12:18:00
82.   pistolpete
The whole thing is getting a tad ludicrous. Let the Sox have him if they want to shell out that much for bidding and signing.

I'd rather save some money with a slow build. Bonderman and Zito would be two solid additions to the roster if all of what we're hearing is even slightly true.

Wang
Johnson
Mussina
Zito
Bonderman

Nice! ;-) Perhaps Cash find a way to get something for Wright this winter as well..

2006-11-10 12:20:11
83.   Yankee Fan In Boston
sheffield update

this just popped up on si.com:

"The Yankees are in serious discussions to trade Gary Sheffield to the Tigers, SI.com's Jon Heyman has learned.

The Yankees are expected to acquire right-handed pitching prospect Humberto Sanchez, according to source close to the story. It is believed the Tigers will include one or two other young pitchers in the deal.

The Tigers are considering a contract extension for Sheffield beyond one year and $13 million remaining in 2007."

what's the report on sanchez?

2006-11-10 12:20:37
84.   Sliced Bread
If it's sayonara, Matsuzaka, by all means, hello Zito. Any Yanks fan who holds their nose at the thought of Zito hasn't fully contemplated the current state of the Yanks pitching. Crafty durable southpaw. No harm in that whatsoever.
2006-11-10 12:21:00
85.   wsporter
79 Since the Lions don't have the identity of the bidder and the bids were sealed on this end it would seem that the report is a result of 1/ the party who unsealed the bids leaking the info or 2/ BO is working both ends of the story and discovered the amount delivered to the Lions and canvassed the individual bidders to get the amounts bid and then matched the numbers.

I guess it makes sense that he could figure it out and that he used "may have" to protect his sources.

2006-11-10 12:24:58
86.   jonnystrongleg
No way the Tigers trade Bonderman for Sheffield. The prospect rumor sounds much more likely.

In the way adding Damon hurt the Red Sox twice, getting Matsuzaka is a double whammy. It's a possible killing stroke.

2006-11-10 12:26:23
87.   Cliff Corcoran
83 Sanchez is a big Dominican righty who went to high school in the Bronx. He'll be 24 in May and cracked AAA for the first time late in 2006. He pitched well there in nine starts. His track record doesn't wow you, but he has high K rates and seems to have brought the wildness he suffered in the low minors under control. Last year he allowed just four homers in 123 innings over 20 starts. So he's young, gets his Ks, is reducing his walks, and keeps the ball in the park, and is almost ready for the show. Not too shabby as the top name in a multi-prospect deal.
2006-11-10 12:26:32
88.   Sliced Bread
86 Yanks are not getting Bonderman for Sheff. That is a dream.
2006-11-10 12:28:13
89.   JL25and3
To clear up a few things about the posting process (http://jpbpa.net/convention/2001_e.pdf for the text of the agreement):

1. The team that wins the bid can't trade the rights. The Irabu deal led to the process being changed.

2. If that team can't negotiate a contract, the process ends. They don't go on to the next-highest bid. The posting fee isn't paid, and Matsuzaka stays with Seibu for another year.

3. Yes, there is an exception, if the commissioner feels that the bidding process has not "been undermined in any way," or that there's been "conduct that was inconsistent with this Agreement or otherwise not in the best interests of professional baseball."

Given that this is an agreement with the Japanese leagues, I think that Selig would come down pretty hard on any team that was playing games. I expect that all the teams involved are serious about their bids and contract negotiations.

2006-11-10 12:29:31
90.   pistolpete
88 Well, obviously not straight up, no.

Who says we wouldn't throw in someone else?

2006-11-10 12:30:37
91.   Yankee Fan In Boston
here are some sanchez resources:
http://tinyurl.com/y5p7ax
http://tinyurl.com/ynze8g
http://tinyurl.com/yfmzk4

he looks promising. and i trust ca$hman's judgement.

2006-11-10 12:30:57
92.   Cliff Corcoran
89 Thanks, JL, I didn't realize the rules had changed about trading the rights (I'll admit, I've not been following this as closely as many others have).
2006-11-10 12:31:15
93.   wsporter
83 Bad elbow, great "electric" stuff, immense talent etc. Scout .com says if he's healthy in 2007 he would compete for a spot on the 25 man in Detroit out of the pen or in the rotation. Missed the last 2 months with a sore elbow in 2006 and has a history of elbow problems. A high risk high reward kind of move?
2006-11-10 12:32:36
94.   pistolpete
The longer this goes, the more I actually don't want D-Mat on our team. If he fails, it'd just be yet another excuse for the rest of the league to mock us.

I'd rather the scenario be him going to Boston or Texas for now, the rest of the league lights him up, and ownership gets impatient & trades him here for less money.

Heh.

2006-11-10 12:33:17
95.   Yankee Fan In Boston
90 "...there has been interest in pavano..."

...wasn't that a heyman quote?

(i realize that i am dreaming, but wouldn't that be wonderful?)

2006-11-10 12:36:35
96.   seamus
The Tigers deal is official.
2006-11-10 12:37:33
97.   Cliff Corcoran
Primary things I've gleaned from the links in 91:

1) Sanchez has a Wang-like mid-90s sinker (thus the low HR rate).
2) Sanchez is the Tigers' top prospect (well, maybe second to Andrew Miller), which makes me a bit more suspicious of this rumor than I was before.
3) Sanchez was shut down in late July because of elbow soreness and has a history of injuries (he's never made more than 23 starts in a season).

2006-11-10 12:40:09
98.   seamus
Anyone know anything on Kevin Whelan and Anthony Clagget?
2006-11-10 12:42:04
99.   RIYank
96 You mean, it's done? We got Sanchez plus other prospects for Sheff?
2006-11-10 12:43:41
100.   seamus
99 The SI and ESPN are reporting Sheffield for Sanchez, Whelan, and Clagget. Also Sheff's contrct was extended by two years.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-11-10 12:43:52
101.   smingers
For what's worth, Keith Law on ESPN.com has Zito ranked 15th for free agents, behind Ted Lilly and Gil Meche:

"Zito is a third or fourth starter with the reputation of a one or a two. In fact, over the last three years, he's struggled badly when facing the two premier offenses in the AL, posting a 6.59 ERA against Boston and the Yankees while walking 47 men and allowing 18 homers in 83.3 innings. His control is below-average; only Daniel Cabrera has walked more batters in the last two years than Zito has. And should Zito's stuff slip at all, he becomes a fifth starter or a guy who needs to head to the National League, the current destination for asylum-seekers who fear AL persecution of their fringy fastballs."

2006-11-10 12:47:10
102.   Cliff Corcoran
98 Kevin Whelan was great as Mr. Subliminal back in the day . . .

But seriously, Whelan is a high-K, high-BB righty reliever who was drafted by the Tigers out of Texas A&M last year. He'll be 23 in January and flat out smoked the Florida State League (high A) this year to the point that his high walk rate almost didn't matter.

Clagget's a very similar sort, but with fewer walks, but also fewer Ks and six months younger. He didn't allow a home run in 59 1/3 innings in the Midwest League (A-ball) in 2006.

Both look to advance quickly as long as they can do like Sanchez has done and increase their control as they go.

2006-11-10 12:48:03
103.   Yankee Fan In Boston
102 mr. subliminal... hilarious.
2006-11-10 12:48:45
104.   seamus
102 good info. thanks!

So, that sounds like a good deal for our farm system, eh? What do others think? Kind of Steinie in reverse..

2006-11-10 12:49:28
105.   Sliced Bread
100 Well, that's... underwhelming.

Sheff scores a contract extention, goes to the reigning champions, the Yanks lose his bat, and get what in return?

If this is true Cashman got jobbed by the Tigers.

2006-11-10 12:49:47
106.   Cliff Corcoran
And it is official.

Well done again by Cash.

2006-11-10 12:51:31
107.   Yankee Fan In Boston
i assume they had sanchez go through a physical, right? this is standard practice, right? i don't like this talk of a rusty hinge on sanchez.

it's ca$hman. i can trust ca$hman, right?

2006-11-10 12:51:59
108.   RIYank
Wow. I can see it now: Hughes, Sanchez, Wang topping our rotation. And all for pocket change.
2006-11-10 12:52:15
109.   Sliced Bread
106 I thought Cashman would get substantially more in return for Sheff.

I hope these pitchers prove me wrong.

I'm sure Sheff's happy.

2006-11-10 12:52:23
110.   seamus
105 3 great pitching prospects for a 1-year contract guy with a high salary that we don't need? I understand your point, but I love building our pitching depth.
2006-11-10 12:52:40
111.   Cliff Corcoran
105 Lose his bat? The Yankees were never going to keep Sheffield. They turned a potential free agent into three legitimate pitching prospects. One who could be another Chien-Ming Wang, and two who look like some kind of cross between Kyle Farnsworth and J. Brent Cox. That's a whole stink better than guys like Ryan Madson, which was an earlier rumor.
2006-11-10 12:54:18
112.   RIYank
Sounds like everybody likes this deal except Sliced Bread.

Sheffield's a very good player, dude, but he's not a player we needed. He would have been worth very few win shares for the Yankees. And we got pitching prospects, for chrissakes, and from MLB's most successful franchise at producing pitching prospects!

I'm happy.

2006-11-10 12:56:12
113.   RIYank
Alex has opened a thread specifically about the Sheff trade.
2006-11-10 12:56:27
114.   Sliced Bread
111 I thought they should have retained Sheff's bat and made him the 1st baseman next season. I think by the end of Spring Training he would be a better 1B than Giambi.
Obviously, this was not Cashman's plan.
I think he parted with Sheff too quickly.
I would have held out for more proven quality, and less quantity.
Whatever. What's done is done.
I hope at least one of these pitchers pans out.
2006-11-10 12:56:52
115.   smingers
105 The Cards might quibble with you over who are the reigning champions.
2006-11-10 12:57:16
116.   kylepetterson
109 I'm not going to say that it's the best deal since you, but 112 makes a pretty good point. We had no need for Sheff and we traded him for quality pitching prospects. Sounds great in my book.
2006-11-10 12:58:49
117.   Yankee Fan In Boston
111 yeah. if this deal went through the day after the ALDS, ca$hman would have been carried throughout the city on people's shoulders. if they're healthy, he did well.
2006-11-10 12:58:53
118.   Sliced Bread
115 league champions, quibbler.

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