Baseball Toaster was unplugged on February 4, 2009.
The Yankees blew out the Devil Rays in the first inning last night, driving Tampa starter Tim Corcoran from the game before he had recorded the inning's second out, then touching up his replacement Brian Stokes for a four-spot. The first time through the Yankee order, only Jason Giambi, who made his first start in four games at first base, made an out, flying to left. The rest of the inning went like this: single, steal, walk, homer, walk, steal, fly out, double, single, single, pitching change, single, K, walk, double, K. Two of the three extra base hits came off the bat of Bobby Abreu, who came to the plate with five men on base during the inning and drove all of them home along with himself on a three-run homer in his first at-bat and a bases-loaded double in his second trip. All totaled, the Yankees sent 13 men to the plate, ten of whom reached base, nine of whom scored.
From there, the story of the game became Hideki Matsui, who picked up an RBI single on a bloop to center in his first at-bat since May 10, then proceeded to pick up three more singles and a walk, while scoring two runs, finally leaving for a pinch runner in the eighth having yet to make an out. Matsui looked great at the plate, keeping his weight back and powering through the ball, hitting mid-90s fastballs with authority and hooking a foul home run into the upper deck in right.
While the offense was feasting--they'd score three more in the third while Bobby Abreu came just a few feet short of a grand slam, flying out with the bases loaded to end the fourth--Mike Mussina kept the Devil Rays fasting, setting down the first ten Rays in order and leaving after 6 1/3 scoreless innings having allowed just five hits. Moose threw 70 percent of 87 pitches for strikes, striking out five and walking no one.
T.J Beam kept Tampa off the bases in relief of Mussina in the seventh and eighth while Torre turned to his bench, resulting in an eighth-inning defensive alignment that included only Melky Cabrera from the starting line-up.
The only blight on the game as far as the Yankees are concerned was Octavio Dotel's performance in the ninth. In to get the final three outs with a 12-0 lead, Dotel had nothing, surrendering four runs on a walk to pinch-hitter Shawn Riggins in just his second major league plate appearance, singles by rookies Dioner Navarro and Ben Zobrist, and doubles by Ty Wigginton and Jorge Cantu. Final score: Yankees 12, Devil Rays 4.
On the YES broadcast, Jim Kaat speculated that Dotel, who had thrown just 5 1/3 innings over eight appearances prior to last night, is in the typical dead-arm period that most pitchers experience during spring training. Given that Dotel went through a sequence in that inning in which he threw five straight pitches into the dirt in the left-handed batters box, I'd have to agree. Certainly one hopes that's what's going on with Dotel, as it provides hope that Dotel still might come around before Joe Torre has to decide his playoff roster. Whatever the cause, Dotel has really struggled with his control since being activated, and has now walked seven men in his 6 1/3 innings, one more than he's struck out.
In other news, Gary Sheffield did indeed take live batting practice before the game, taking 32 swings. He's also continuing to work out at first base, and he and Torre are now saying that Sheff could be activated during this homestand.
Finally, Philip Hughes, Tyler Clippard and J. Brent Cox, the three double-A pitchers who many hope will form the core of the Yankee pitching staff of the future along with Chien-Ming Wang, were in uniform in the Bronx for last night's game. The three will not be added to the active roster (only Hughes is on the Yankees' 40-man), but the Yankees wanted to give them all a taste of the big leagues as Hughes and Cox especially could find themselves a part of the big league roster next year.
I can only imagine what it's like to face this lineup.
CF Damon - L
SS Jeter - R
RF Abreu - L
3B A-Rod - R
1B Giambi/Sheffield - L/R
DH Giambi/Matsui/Sheffield - L/L/R
C Posada - S
2B Cano - L
LF Cabrera - S
PH Giambi/Sheffield/Matsui/Bernie - L/R/L/S
Has any team in recent memory had that many good left-handed bats in one lineup? And the pinch hitting options make you drool. This kind of flexibility and bench are killer in World Series games in the National League ballparks. Remember Braves manager Bobby Cox complaining that the Yankees had Wade Boggs as available as a pinch hitter in the 10th inning of Game 4 in Atlanta? And you still have to deal with Aaron Guiel!
The Royals Rumble is the top sports story on CNN this morning. Hernandez insists nothing happened, even though the fisticuffs have been repeatedly shown on TV.
Former New York Yankee owner Colonel Jacob Ruppert once described his perfect day at Yankee Stadium: "It's when the Yankees score eight runs in the first inning and then slowly pull away."
You would think they could id someone (Dotel) who "had nothing" when he was warming up in the bullpen.
It's probably too late for Dotel to prove his playoff-worthiness at this point.
Joe has said he plans to bring 11 pitchers into October, and unless Bruney crashes back to earth, and Octavio settles in, Dotel will probably be Karsayed (as you say).
It's unfortunate because if you and Kaat are correct, and Dotel is merely in spring training form, the Yanks would be taking a fresh, powerful, and proven arm for granted.
I have a feeling Dotel just needs innings to prove he's as effective as any Yankees reliever not named Mariano.
Proctor and Villone are starting to give me the Sturtze-Quantrill heebeejeebies.
Farnswacker, nasty as he can be, has struggled in October.
re: the three #5 starters: Wright, Lidle, and Karstens take different approaches toward back of the rotation mediocrity, which makes the pen that more important. Hmmm.
And you're right about Matsui. Those hits weren't Devil Ray gimmes. Godzilla's looking good. With all due respect to Will Carroll, does he have a 2nd opinion this morning?
I liked this from Jack Curry this morning in the Times:
"I hope they don't expect him to get four hits every night," said Mike Mussina, last night's winning pitcher. "That might be a little much." Mussina paused before adding, "Maybe three."
Yo, Sheff will be back. I mean, when that man says he's ready, you know he's going at least give it a go. In another article that I caught this morning, Sheff was asked about the logjam of talent the Yankees will have to contend with, and he said, "That's Joe Torre's problem."
Talk about a good problem to have.
Good Gosh.
The Mets are busy scouting him now, in addition to a bunch of other teams. He's gonna cost someone big. Hope it's Georgie.
From ESPN:
"It's September and there was some sort of misunderstanding," Royals manager Buddy Bell said. "Something was said and both guys are extremely competitive, but they have to have a little more poise. We met and straightened things out."
3 Here's what went down:
Hernandez jogs off the mound and into the dugout. He immediately points at John Buck and starts shouting.
Hernandez: "Hey! YOU got chocolate on my peanut butter!"
Buck: "Oh yeah? Well, YOU got peanut butter on my choc-" WHAP!
Vigorous slapping ensues. Coach pulls Hernandez away from Buck as bench cheers on.
Poldberg: "Get a grip, will ya? We need you to go a couple more innings yet. You know our bullpen is like Reeses Pieces."
Hernandez: "Yeah, I know, it sucks. Let me go clean off my peanut butter..."
Later that inning, Buck and Hernandez chat by the moundside.
Buck: "You know, that whole thing WAS a bit cliche..."
Hernandez: "Yeah, I know..."
Buck: "Tell you what, let's win this and Buddy says we'll get us some sundaes after the game. His treat."
Hernandez: "Friendly's, right?"
Buck: "Sure thing, kid. They got this awesome PBJ..."
Hernandez: "Wow, you mean they make a real ice cream sandwich?"
http://tinyurl.com/h6673
mikeplugh, is Japan going wild the morning after of Matsui's heroic return?
CF Damon - L
SS Jeter - R
RF Abreu - L
3B A-Rod - R
1B Giambi - L
DH Sheffield - R
LF Matsui - L
C Posada - S
2B Cano - L
Now, that's just what I think will happen come playoff time even as I'm not sure it should. But, wow indeed! Then the bench is:
Fasano - C (of course Wilson makes more sense)
Melky
Bernie
Cairo (though Green is a better choice)
and ??? (Wilson, Guiel, Green, Phillips)
The last choice probably comes down to Phillips or Wilson as a late inning replacement for Giambi.
Talk about an embarassment of riches!
The only team that gets me scared is Minny, because of their lefites. And you know the national media would play up the story to no end as a David and Goliath.
I have:
C: Posada
sub: Fasano
1B: Giambi
sub (or vs LHP): Wilson
2B: Cano
SS: Jeter
3B: A-Rod
LF: Matsui
CF: Damon
RF: Abreu
OF Subs: Melky, Bernie
INF Sub: Cairo
DH: Sheff
PR/UT: Guiel or Phillips
Pitchers:
Unit
Wang
Moose
Wright or Lidle or Karstens or (ha) Pavano
Mo
Proctor
Farns
Myers
Villone
Bruney
25 men. Pretty intimidating.
No Dotel, no 5th starter/mop-up long man, but overall a pretty flexible and powerful line-up.
As suggested by another reader, the PR/UT spot might be dropped in favor of another 5th starter, especially with the flexibility of Wilson and Cairo.
As much as I hate to say it Guiel might be more useful than bernie, but that would NEVER happen.
Lineup:
Damon CF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
A-Rod 3B
Giambi 1B
Sheff DH
Matsui LF
Posada C
Cano 2B
He asked me how I knew, in front of the students and I said, "I saw it on the internet." He jokingly said that the school has a strict policy about using the internet for non-school things (I'm sure there probably is a policy).
I told him it was current event research. ;)
I went from being a fan of Matsuzaka to being a complete fanatic as I watched him more closely. What I thought was a strong pitching candidate for the Yankees, has turned into a categorical imperative! We must acquire him.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/news/262427.html
The money quote:
BA: How close do you feel you are to being ready for the big leagues?
PH: "I think it's just a matter of innings and gaining more experience. I'm young and have time to mature, but I also think I could handle if it they called me up now. Whenever it happens, I'm looking forward to my debut."
Ah....if only....
I am surprised that you didn't mention Jeter's hitting streak coming to a unusual end. It is usually not ended by managers.
Hernandez: "YOUR team, YOUR Town!"
Buck: "No, YOUR team, YOUR Tow-" WHAP!
And the more I think about it the more I may actually like it, but really it comes down to Shef and if he's ready.
If so, then the possibilities are endless. That flexibility is a good thing - I think Joe will try to see if he has it. Whereas if Matsui is only a DH that clogs things up much more.
Same deal with Shef. If he can hit, he can DH. If can hit and play 1B, he's that much more valuable. And even against LHP, Shef could move to RF, and Bobby could come off the bench.
http://tinyurl.com/ht6h2
I love it that Bernie thanked Torre for taking Jeter out, thereby preserving the tie. Funny stuff.
37 Your link doesn't work.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/452026p-380437c.html
Best record in league
Magic number down to nine
Just waiting for Sheff
Saw on Deadspin that Bobby A. was avenging Steve Irwin's death. I love that kind of twisted humor.
What I get:
"Safari can't open the page "http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/452026p-380437c.html" because it can't find the server "www.nydailynews.com".
Gary almost never raises his hands above his shoulders to catch a ball since the shoulder problems started. Watch him in the outfield -- he catches everything chest high off to the side of his body whenever possible. His shoulders are getting as bad as Bernie's. He plays more than ten at 1B and I guarantee you he will get hurt -- if it isn't his shoulder, it'll be a hammy from stretching.
I sincerely hope he helps us in the playoffs -- but no way I would bring him back for next year unless it was strictly as a DH.
I think Dye gets it due to HR and RBIs. And I think he would be a fine selection. Jeter comes in 2nd, followed by the Minnesota triumvirate(sp?).
Because in all honesty, I feel more comfortable with Melky up in a big spot than Shef. I like his ability to go up the middle and put the ball in play when all that's needed is a base hit.
The team's perfect as it is. I want to see Matsui in there, of course, preferably as DH, but I think Shef's greatest value right now is as a pinch-hitter.
Plus, I have affection for Melky and I think he deserves to see him see this season through, for better or for worse.
If he starts seriously slumping, then sure, insert Shef as appropriate, but don't put him in there just 'cause he's Shef.
This PS's bench is going to be sick, in a good sense. (It's either going to be Matsui, Sheff, Abreu or Giambi sitting there, licking his chops.)
I don't hate Shef, I'm just not inspired by him. There's a difference.
I have feelings for Melky and when I watch a baseball game I'm much more invested in the outcome of the game when I'm actually rooting for the players rather than just their bats.
What can I say, I prefer watching Melky to Shef. I prefer his style of hitting.
Plus, I really do think that overstacking the line-up with power hitters can backfire in the postseason against superior pitching.
Whatever, it's just my opinion.
Or perhaps I can put it to you another way:
If you could right now replace this whole Yankee team, position by position, with the best OPS men in the major leagues, would you do it?
I wouldn't because for me there's more to a baseball team than the stats. There's the relationship you have with the players as individuals, and that relationship is obviously highly subjective.
I just happen to think the team is perfect as it is and enjoy watching it as it is--Melky's a big part of that for me.
If you'd rather see Shef, fine, godspeed to you.
Because the spectre of Sheffield in the dugout is liable to effect how the opposing manager uses his pen. In other words, he could influence the course of the game through presence alone, without even being used, sort of how Mo does.
Is this fair to say?
Why would I pay 13 million for an unnecessary OFer who looks like he's about to break down? Why would I pay 13 million for a 38 year old DH who just spent nearly an entire season on the DL with a very dangerous (career-wise) wrist injury? It's not a LOVE/HATE thing -- it's baseball common sense.
I notice, for instance, when we play California, a lot of their success comes from the ability to slap pitcher's pitchers for singles. These are pitches that can get out a guy like Shef and presumably you see more such quality pitches in the postseason.
A guy like Melky seems, as far as I have observed him, to handle these pitches pretty well. No, he won't hit them over the fence, but he'll always have a decent chance of getting a clean single.
Isn't this a valuable skill to have in the postseason?
I'm coming home to NY for a few days and will be able to go to that game (first all year). And I'm willing to compensate as generously as a student can...
He used 3 left fielders in Game 1: Bellinger, Justice, Hill and swapped Bellinger and Justice mid-game throughout the Series.
Brosius and Sojo split time at 3rd throughout the Series.
Obviously, the platoon won't take place at 3rd, but at 1st this year, while DH, left and right field will be shared as well.
This, of course, is all providing Sheffield, who has yet to step to the plate, comes back swinging like the monster he was.
I would go Abreu RF, Giambi 1B, Melky LF and Bernie DH. Matsui to pinch hit for Bernie as soon as Santana is out.
Unless Sheffield has proven to be 100%, or Matsui is just crushing lefties over these last 20 games. Otherwise, I don't think they'll be able to handle Santana at less than full power (not to mention don't want to take a chance on the surgically repaired wrists checking their swings on the changeup).
Who would you like to see?
I think I might go with Wang in 1 at home. And if it's Wang, does Giambi play first?
Giambi at first base means to me: No DPs started by the 1B, and no 3-2's, 1B to C to pick off a run. Little range, but otherwise good hands on short hops. Could factor into a low-scoring Wang-Santana match-up, definitely.
My gut is Giambi at first, but I would listen. I guess Giambi DH's, no Bernie and Wilson at first in the other case?
I am in the camp that does not consider Gary Sheffield a scourge on the face of Yankees history. Not once have I seen him make a comment, as a Yankee, that instills in me the sense of selfishness that other people find in him. As someone else said, he truly enjoys being a Yankee, and the only controversial statements I can think of are those where he didn't want to be traded from the team he loved. I understand that he has rubbed some posters here the wrong way, and that's fine. But I have enjoyed seeing Gary Sheffield swing his bat in the Yankee lineup.
On benching Melky: he can handle it, he's proven that he's a big boy. He shows promise as a young outfielder; I hope he can continue to improve. But his lack of identification as a standout prospect always gives me doubt-- just because he's a fan favorite does not mean he is the best player to put on the field. Exhibit A: Bernie Williams. Many of the people on here have debated about how to put the best possible team on the field. Offensively, few can deny that a healthy Gary Sheffield is worth nearly a run a game more than 22 year old Melky Cabrera.
60As for the all-OPS team... here's the 2006 OPS all-stars, with current ages and salaries. Please tell me which ones you wouldn't want on your team:
C: Joe Mauer .996 (23, $400,000)
1B: Albert Pujols 1.102 (26, $14 mil)
2B: Ray Durham .911 (34, $7 mil)
3B: Miguel Cabrera 1.012 (23, $472,000)
SS: Derek Jeter .952 (32, $20.6 mil)
LF: Manny Ramirez 1.048 (34, $18.3 mil)
CF: Carlos Beltran 1.005 (29, $13.6 mil)
RF: Jermaine Dye 1.026 (32, $5 mil)
DH: Travis Halfner 1.097 (29 $2.7 mil)
Total: $82.1 mil (2006 Yanks: $118 mil)
Okay, I'll spot ya Ray Durham and substitute Chase Utley (.899, 27, $500,000). Yeah, I'm sure the team chemistry in that clubhouse would be soooo awful that the team wouldn't score 1200 runs. And I'm sure you'd have trouble rooting for them as they won 120 games.
I think the spirit of 60 was that he wouldn't want to replace a guy he's been in the trenches with all year for an OPS bump from a stranger. More or less, I agree, but Sheffield is no stranger. He's been in the trenches for 2 years and is fighting to get back and help out again this year. I don't think Melky deserves to be displaced for a number, but Sheffield is more than a number.
That being said, left field on Yankee Stadium is a tough position. Not a place I want to experiment in the Post Season with Gary Sheffield.
But as I said above, there's a lot more to rooting for a baseball team to me than just getting "the best players." Call me old-fashioned, but I like a team with some sense of continuity, character, individuality.
I enjoy forming relationships with specific players and I enjoy the dilemmas that crop up with players like Bernie. It's what keeps the game human for me.
If tomorrow you were to put all those players you listed into pinstripes and throw them on the field, I'd lose all interest in the Yankees per se.
Very few if any of the old Yankees were the best at their positions in terms of numbers. Bernie, Jeter, Tino, Brosius, Knoblauch.
That's why it was so thrilling to see them win.
I'd much rather see a guy like Brosius step it up in the postseason than see a guy like Sheffield perform as expected.
But again, that's just me. Much of my love of baseball is mystical and emotional.
Winning's great, but under some circumstances I'd rather lose with a team whose players I cared about than win with one I didn't.
Is this really so bizarre?
And if a big part of the pitcher-batter matchup is psychological, then there is no question what Sheffield brings to the table. Melky's still going to be overpowered by superior pitching...Sheffield will stand right up to it if he's anywhere near what he used to be.
But I'm going on historical performance here...let's see how the guy does once he starts seeing major league pitching again.
And you're right, Sheffield is no stranger, which is why I'd even have this conversation.
But, relative to Melky, he is a stranger in the sense that watching Melky all year has excited me a lot more than watching Sheffield ever did.
When Sheffield came over he was a known quantity and for me, personally, known quantities simply aren't as compelling as unknown ones.
I don't know what kind of potential Mattingly had when he came up I was only 11 in his first full season so wasn't too engaged with the scouting reports and whatnot.
But I do know that suddenly here was this guy who had played some in '83, and played well, but then in '84 he set the league on fire.
To me, it was most unexpected and that's what made him such a mythic figure, at least in my mind.
Yes, of course, known quantities can be good and are often necessary, but I don't like when my team is dominated by such people siphoned off from the rest of the league. Frankly, I find it boring and contrived.
It's not about Sheffield per se, it's just about not wanting to tamper with success and wanting to watch a more balanced team than a less balanced one.
And as I say, I like watching Melky hit. I enjoy his approach to the game and look forward to his at-bats.
Sheffield's swing is thrilling, of course, but that's about it. I'm much more interested in watching a hitter like Melky, but that's just a matter of taste.
Back in 2001, remember the postseason? Remember how Justice was just horrific at the plate?
Well, he'd been one of my favorite players from 2000 and I remember being furious, just furious with Joe for trotting him out there in very meaningful games when it was clear he had no chance in hell of hitting the baseball.
So no, I'm not that sentimental.
But in the case of Melky, it's interesting, because I'm not sure he'd be that much more vulnerable to superior pitching than Sheff. Maybe, but I'm not sure.
So much of that just depends on who's swinging better at any given time. My argument is simply to not replace Melky with Sheff just as a matter of course, but to make him earn it.
And maybe I'm seeing different at-bats than you, but I don't have that much more confidence with Sheff against superior pitching.
I don't know, that walk that Melky drew in what, his first game? Remember? At the Stadium against Shilling in the late innings?
That at-bat showed me so, so much about this kid.
And Sheff can be a little wild with that swing and start chasing sometimes whereas I think Melky might chase a bit less and make contact a bit more.
This is how my memory serves, anyway. Maybe I'm inventing.
Cheers.
I think Sheff would obviously be less vulnerable to a superior fastball than Melky, but as to breaking stuff?
Or superior pitching that's based on location rather than power?
Sheffield's a dead-pull hitter which means you make the slightest mistake and he'll hit it into the parking lot, but as to quality pitches made on the edges and up and down?
I don't know, I think Melky's got better bat control for those kind of pitches, though sure, he'll swing through the high heat.
Does this sound plausible?
Let's see how Matsui comes along, and what Sheff is cookin', before filling Mr. Torre's October suggestion box.
For what it's worth, you present a great case for Melky.
I am glad I don't have to make this decision.
He has superior talent to juggle this year.
Indeed, all this is contingent on how the respective players are actually performing in the batter's box when the time comes to fill out the line-up cards in October.
If Melky does go into some horrific funk come October, no, I don't want him in there.
Oh, and speaking of funks, I've been meaning to point this out for awhile.
Has anyone noticed just how damned consistent CAno's been?
He came back hitting around .328 and for weeks and weeks his average hovered between that and like .332. He's just pulled away an these last days, and last I saw was up around .338.
But to have your average hover within a five point spread over such a long period is just remarkable.
All the more so when you consider that he does on occasion take ridiculous swings, grounding outside pitches weakly to second base.
But for whatever reason, he's managed to see to it that those swings are the aberration, as if it only takes him one or two at-bats to remember that that's not how he's supposed to be hitting.
In general, I agree with you about the mystique of baseball and on rooting for favorite players. I don't like the idea of signing the best players regardless of age or price. The Tampa-faction of the Yankees front office had been using that strategy- I guess what I was trying to show with my all-OPS list was that you can get elite talent for cheap. I hope that Melky, Cano, and Wang are joined by other young players who I can root for in years to come. If these players come up through the Yankees system, like your favorites (and mine) Jeter, Bernie, Mo... or through free agency and trade like Tino, Brosius, Knobby. I agree that team building should follow the mid-90s approach and not the early 00s approach.
All of that said, I simply agree with the notion in the beginning of this thread.... oh to have these problems is joyous indeed! What a fearful lineup to behold, even without Sheffield. I'm excited for the playoffs.
First: "I know who the leader is on the team. I ain't going to say who it is, but I know who it is. I know who the team feeds off. I know who the opposing team comes in knowing they have to defend to stop the Yankees. I know this. The people don't know. Why? The media don't want them to know. They want to promote two players in a positive light, and everyone else is garbage."
Second: Sheffield never said that he didn't want to be traded because he loved being a Yankee. He felt he'd made financial concessions by deferring some salary, and he'd demand big money if he got traded. ''I'll ask for everything. Everything. You're going to inconvenience me, I'm going to inconvenience every situation there is.'' And he didn't just say he didn't want a trade, he said he'd undermine any team who dared to trade for him.
Third: his past behavior was so reprehensible - strictly in baseball terms - that he needs to make some sort of amends. The fact that he hasn't chosen to undermine the Yankees - though reserving the right to do so - is irrelevant.
To me, at least. Vox clamantis in deserto.
Uh, no, not least of all for "fans" like you.
Wilson or Phillips instead of Tino
Guiel or Sheff instead of Bubba
Damon instead of Bernie
Bernie instead of Ruben
Abreu instead of Sheff
Melky instead of Womack
Cairo instead of Bellhorn
Fasano instead of Flaherty
I don't want to get into a specific argument about Gary Sheffield, but I want to try and douse the flame war before it gets too bad. I suppose we all have a couple of players that we absolutely detest and would have trouble rooting for. Actually, I was going to try and come up with an example, but I can't really think of one. Bonds, maybe. As I said on another thread recently, if the Jets signed TO, for example... I'd root for him. If the Nets signed Ron Artest... I'd root for him. If the Yankees signed Milton Bradley... I'd root for him.
One of the most important lessons I've learned while reading this blog is that there are many more types of fans out there than I had previously imagined. Sure, I knew there were bandwagon-type Yankees fans, and some female fans who only knew Derek Jeter (not all female fans are like this, of course). Most specifically, I have learned that there are fans who do not root for the whole of the team, in the sense that every individual player is a part of that whole. The A-Rod bashing this year has made this blatantly obvious- some people just don't like a certain player, and will do everything they can to knock that player down a peg, even if they happen to play for a favorite team.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's great that there are all these types of fans... stat-heads like myself, mystique-loving fans like "weeping," people who root for (or against) individuals. And I think we can all admit to having parts of the other categories in us as well.
I just want to make sure all us children get along... Father Cliff is watching.
For me, the best analogy is Pete Rose.
For the record, JL25and3's dislike of Sheffield is well documented on this board and IIRC it goes back to Sheff's early days with the Brewers. I for one, admire the fact that JL25and3 has stuck to his feelings about Sheff (whether I agree with him or not) even after he became a Yankee. Being a Cowboy fan I have even started rooting for TO this year (never thought I could do that) so I have no room to talk. BTW, I also thought I could never root for Wade Boggs or Johnny Damon when they became Yankees. But once they put on the pinstripes I changed my tune. I guess I just root for the cloth and not the man, but I surely don't begrudge those who stick to their guns on principle.
How about Schilling?
My apologies for getting testy.
And well said, mehmattski.
In 1983, Mattingly was less of an offensive threat then Melky is now. I don't think anybody knew what was coming. Donnie MADE himself a great ballplayer.
Until Shef gets 40-50 ABs, to talk about his role is silly.
When talking about ShefSui's offense over Melky, while I agree, you have to consider Melky's superior glove and arm... especially in the PS.
Unless someone is very cold, or very hot, I believe Torre will mix-n-match the lineups.
ShefSui could always pinch-hit and replace Mely in the lineup if more offense is needed.
I watched Sheffield circa 2004 & 2005. Regardless of his past, he has more then earned his stripes. While Mats, Giambi and ARod all had slumps, Shef was very consist... consistantly dangerous.
We are 0 for 5 in the PS the last 5 years. Torre is going to manage to win. Shefs 'history', Melkys feelings, whatever... Torre will field a team to win.
He can deal with overcrowding issues in 2007.
However, as Torre favors veterans, we may see Melky on the bench... it will depend on how ShefSui hits over the next 19 games.
Bernie wants to play in 2007.
Do we resign him? Or do we watch him play, after 16 years, in another uniform.
Will ARod get to 500 HRs next year?
Shef has 453 HRs. You know he wants 500... which means 2 more years.
He may want to finish his career as a Yankee, and play for a discount... or go to an AL team with a shorter LF.
As a DH, I have no doubt Bonds will hit #756 next year. Will Steinbrenner be able to turn this down?
As far as position players go, aside from a backup catcher, will we need/get anyone in the off-season?
I don't feel like rehashing arguments about Sheffield as a player and human being. In fact, I have some anecdotal evidence from a colleague who's spent time around him that he may (surprise!) not be the most likeable person.
As fans, it's certainly fun to have opinions and make judgements about a game and players we care so much about. But I get off the bus when the pronouncements become too grandiose. Saying that Gary Sheffield owes something to "the game", on the basis of his behavior as a player and teammate throughout his career, isn't anything I'm willing to get on board with. In fact, it's unbelievably arrogant.
I dislike David Wells for the way he quit on the Yankees in Game 5 of the 2003 series and felt he let his team and coaches down, and there's plenty of evidence to support the supposition that he was not a model teammate. Therefore, I want nothing to do with him, but I don't feel he owes anything to "the game" -- he's just a clown I don't want on my team any more.
There's just so much self-importance from fans in judging players -- I see this most insufferably from people in Boston who invoke God and some higher moral order too frequently in talking about a game and cussing out the Yankees as well as their own players. I'm not opposed to principles, and there are certainly players like Bonds with such a high profile that a moral discussion is almost inevitable. But I've always wondered about suffocating self-righteousness regarding players we really don't know as human beings, and to what degree fans really allow the objects of their affection to be human, to make mistakes, to be forgiven.
I think a player owes "the game" more than that.
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