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Better Late than Never
2006-08-28 14:48
by Alex Belth
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

Hey, yo. Our apologies for not getting a post up earlier. We may not be the Iron Horse, but we're steady enough. Every once in a while, life gets in the way. As you all know, with the Yankees on the west coast last week, Cliff held things down lovely. Meanwhile, I was up in Vermont at Emilys' folks' place for a long weekend and had little to no Internet access. Spotted to an early 8-0 lead, the Yanks had to fend off those unbelievably pesky Halos all the same. Final Score: Yanks 11, Angels 8. The two signature everyday players of the Joe Torre Era, Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter, led the way. Robbie Cano had a nice afternoon as well, and the slumping Alex Rodriguez got a hit as well (though he whiffed three more times). After the Sox fell to the Mariners again, New York's lead in the AL East is back to six-and-a-half games, exactly where it was when the Bombers left for the west coast a week ago. 2-4, just like BP's Joe Sheehan predicted.

Boston plays Oakland tonight while the Yanks return home for what promises to be two exciting match-ups this week in the BX: the Tigers followed by the Twinkies.

Meanwhile, can Carl Pavano be anymore snakebit than he's already been? I can't tell if he's legtimately brittle or if he's a chump. (Could be a little bit of both, no?) Maybe his latest injury won't prevent him from rejoining the team, but this has developed a life of its own, man. I mean, dag.

Yo, lemme tell you something. Vermont is dope. Mad beautiful and all. But it's good to be home. Missed you guys.

Comments (102)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-28 15:10:21
1.   Max
Hey Alex, where in Vermont were you? That's funny, you're like the 4th person I've spoken to that has talked about how dope Vermont is this time of year.

As it turns out, my family went to Stowe and the Trapp Family Lodge for my mother in law's 70th b-day, and then we took a few days after on our own. Normally, we do the Cape or somewhere in Maine for a beach type vacation, but damn...Vermont was just so beautiful and relaxing.

Not only that, but you can get a huge room or cabin in the summer for a rate that would get you nothing more than a closet in NYC (at any time of year). And the crowds in late summer are modest to minimal. (Winter skiing season is when the rates and crowds skyrocket)

I couldn't recommend it highly enough.

2006-08-28 15:10:31
2.   unpopster
"Yo, lemme tell you something. Vermont is dope."

words probably NEVER, EVER uttered before by a B-Boy in the history of man.

2006-08-28 15:24:10
3.   Dimelo
Alex - where in VT were you at? I got a house in Wilmington. The neighborhood loves it when we go and getto up the area. No, no...we are civil.
2006-08-28 15:24:34
4.   Sliced Bread
Welcome back, Alex.

I have great friends in Warren and Marshfield, VT.

Sweet territory up there summer, fall, and winter. They can keep the miserable muddy season though.

Vermont is dope. VT is the opposite of TV you know.

2006-08-28 15:26:32
5.   vockins
re: Pavano

Write - off. I'm actually hoping this dude is benched until 2007. I don't have much faith in starting a guy that hasn't seen major league hitting, especially playoff hitting, in over a year.

BP (will carroll, I assume) said he's in the discussion for worst free agent signing ever. I'm having trouble thinking of somebody who was worse.

Two tears in a bucket.

2006-08-28 15:30:44
6.   unmoderated
as a bennington college graduate, i can confirm the fact that vermont is dope. i think the gal and i are headed to lake champlain for the honeymoon.

but only if they have cable.
cant miss a game, of course.

2006-08-28 15:34:23
7.   jkay
Pavano suffers possible rib fracture in car accident

By Buster Olney
ESPN The Magazine

Carl Pavano, the Yankees' oft-injured free agent pitcher, was hurt in a
car accident on Aug. 15 but informed the club of the injury only in
recent days, and he was examined in Columbus, Ohio, on Monday for a
possible rib fracture.

Pavano threw in a bullpen session in Columbus on Monday and is
scheduled to start for the Triple-A Clippers on Wednesday, but that
might change -- depending on his diagnosis.

According to a league source, the Yankees are hoping the injury --
which hasn't prevented Pavano from making any of his three
rehabilitation starts -- is not so serious that it would derail his
latest comeback from the disabled list.

Pavano was injured on the day he pitched for Class A Tampa on Aug. 15
but pitched that night anyway, throwing four innings. Since then, he
has made injury rehabilitation starts for Double-A Trenton and Triple-A
Columbus. He has had pain below his right armpit, as Yankees manager
Joe Torre acknowledged over the weekend. But only in the last couple of
days did Pavano tell the Yankees about what he believes to be the
source of his pain.

Pavano, 30, signed a four-year, $40 million with the Yankees after the
2004 season, and went 4-6 with a 4.77 ERA in 17 starts last year. He
has not pitched in a major league game this season.

2006-08-28 15:45:18
8.   Jim Dean
PeteAbe is now reporting that: "Pavano did not inform the organization until late Saturday night. That is in violation of his contract.

The call is still going on and Pavano will be on shortly. Cashman has said several times how "disappointed" and "frustrated" he is. Pavano apparently faces disciplinary action.

"Of course I'm angry," Cashman said.

Back in a while with some details. But this could be the last straw in terms of Pavano's time with the team."

2006-08-28 15:55:20
9.   rbj
Cashman (and everyone else) should be angry at Pavano. I can forgive being in a car wreck, but not for not telling the organization.

And welcome back Alex.

2006-08-28 16:02:56
10.   RIYank
Hey, I was also in the dopiest state; on an island in Lake Champlain, to be exact. Fantastic -- although the Boston Whaler ride back to South Hero in yesterday's storm was... harrowing.
2006-08-28 16:06:44
11.   Simone
"Yankees pitcher Carl Pavano has a pair of broken ribs, the result of a car accident several weeks ago that he initially didn't tell the team about."

http://tinyurl.com/guugf

I can't believe that Pavano didn't tell the Yankees about the accident right away. This guy has the worse luck. He needs to be wrapped in bubble wrap.

2006-08-28 16:08:43
12.   Ron Burgundy
At least I wasn't the only one in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine, just got back last night. I gotta say, I agree with Alex, that part of the country is beautiful this time of the year. Though the ride back to NYC was horrible, the rain was just non-stop and hard as hell for 5 hours going back to NYC on Sunday (5-10 PM). Monsoon-like, even.
2006-08-28 16:08:55
13.   Shaun P
I'm speechless on Pavano. What the heck is wrong with this guy? (I mean that rhetorically, not literally.)

4 BTW Sliced, many thanks for posting the pitching change for Detroit at the end of the last thread.

2006-08-28 16:10:34
14.   Simone
The Yankees need Pavano this season. I know Cashman is angry, but he needs to not overreact. Now isn't the time to do a George Steinbrenner impression if there is a chance that Pavano can come back in a month's time. Insanity!
2006-08-28 16:12:11
15.   Schteeve
Um, I'm no Dr. Cliff Huxtable but how will broken ribs NOT affect a pitcher? I broke one rib three years ago and it still affects my golf game. Pavano is toast. What a dick. But I can understand the impulse to keep it hidden what I can't undestand is how a 30 year old man couldn't conquer that impulse and do what is in his and the teams long term best interest.
2006-08-28 16:14:00
16.   Simone
The more I think about it, the more crazy this situation seems. Pavano is so idiotic that he didn't get a proper once over after the accident. On the other hand, I can only imagine how desperate he must have been to pitch that he was willing to overlook the pain until it got unbearable. What if he had punctured a lung? Craziness.
2006-08-28 16:16:19
17.   Dimelo
Cashman should just ask Pavano if he's ever played rocket ship, when Pavano answers 'no' and asks what does that mean, Cashman tells him that's when he lights Pavano's tampon on fire.

Is it too late to get Tonya Harding to pitch in place of Pavano?

2006-08-28 16:16:57
18.   randym77
I don't know what to make of this latest revelation. I guess we can't say he doesn't really want to pitch. Why else would he keep it secret, if not for fear of being shut down - again? Unless you think he broke his own ribs intentionally.

But jeez, this guy's bad luck is unbelievable.

2006-08-28 16:18:19
19.   kylepetterson
When Carl Pavano says that he broke a rib "in a car accident", what he really means is that he broke a rib "watching a car accident". possibly on tv. possibly while in a bathrobe eating cheatos. Getting hurt in a car accident is reserved for people who get real injuries, not fictional ones.
2006-08-28 16:19:53
20.   Marcus
You gotta wonder if Pavano concealed the injury because he didn't want to be seen as conjuring up yet another injury and hoped he could just play through it. Now if they end up voiding his contract over this? Wow. It will be a shame to get nothing in return for him.

There seems to be a lot of car accidents involving major leaguers this season; am I imagining that?

2006-08-28 16:24:02
21.   vockins
14 I think it's highly debatable he'd be productive at all. Need somebody, maybe. Need Pavano - I don't think so.
2006-08-28 16:25:43
22.   wsporter
I hate to pile on the aflicted but what the hell Carl? Is Pavano the Buble Boy? Did he escape? For god sake please put him back in his natural booboo free environment. It's the kindest thing we could do. I hope he doesn't sneeze. I shudder to think what would break if that happened?
2006-08-28 16:29:09
23.   Bob Timmermann
Buster Olney is from Vermont. Alex went to Vermont. Perhaps Alex is marrying in to the family of one of America's most powerful sportswriters!
2006-08-28 16:33:54
24.   eephus
This actually makes me feel bad for Pavano -- if it's true, anyway. Clearly he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but at least he's apparently been trying to play. Assuming all these injuries have been real, he must feel terrible - and articles in a bunch of NY papers today talked about how little respect his teammates have for him. For a team that almost never talks to the media like that, even off the record, that's pretty harsh.

Didn't Paul O'Neill play with fractured ribs one postseason? '99 maybe? Of course, he wasn't pitcher... and he was insane. But man, I miss that guy.

2006-08-28 16:35:14
25.   randym77
First inning of the Clippers game: Wil Nieves already has two errors. Jorge Posada, he's not.
2006-08-28 16:46:22
26.   Dimelo
24 I feel bad for ARod, he's in the arena, standing in front of his teammates, the media, the crazy fans and he's there taking his lumps.

I don't feel bad for Pavano.....he's done absolutely nothing for the Yanks. He'll never elicit a sympathetic reaction from me. As far as I'm concerned, Pavano sleeps with the fishes.

2006-08-28 16:48:48
27.   randym77
Oh, and Rasner is the starting pitcher tonight.
2006-08-28 16:52:56
28.   Bluebleeder87
1

isn't Vermont were they make the "Vermont Teady Bear"?

2006-08-28 16:54:32
29.   Bluebleeder87
As far as I'm concerned, Pavano sleeps with the fishes.

or as we say at DodgerThoughts snakes on planes

2006-08-28 16:57:43
30.   Simone
17 I find your "tampon" comment beyond insulting to women.
2006-08-28 17:00:51
31.   Dimelo
30 Yeah me too. I never should have put Pavano in that sentence.

Get a grip....it's a joke.

2006-08-28 17:03:01
32.   rbj
So is this just Carl being Carl?
2006-08-28 17:03:08
33.   eephus
26 I hear you. I mean, he's certainly been a failure of near-historic proportions as a player, no argument there. I'm just not sure how much of it is his fault...

I'm not gonna waste my breath defending him either, though. As you say, other people have had tougher seasons.

2006-08-28 17:15:59
34.   Javi Javi
26 The fish might bite his fingers. Or he might rub up against stinging coral. That would add another 2months to the DL stint.
2006-08-28 17:17:27
35.   Max
[301 31 One of the more unfortunate byproducts of jock culture and internet forums is the tendency to slag underperforming/chronically injured players, by making derogatory comparisons to women, and invoking feminine traits as if they were some sign of genetic deficiency.

I assume Cliff and Alex strive to maintain a higher standard here, so the insulting and heinous "jokes" about tampons, and photoshop manipulations involving Pavano in skirts and wedding dresses can stay in other forums, AFAIK.

2006-08-28 17:23:50
36.   kylepetterson
35 but Pavano in women's lingerie is still OK, right?
2006-08-28 17:33:41
37.   vockins
35 I don't run these forums, but I agree, Max.

In that spirit, I'll refrain from posting a joke about naming the wheelchair section in the new stadium after Carl Pavano.

2006-08-28 17:36:58
38.   Dimelo
35 How about the converse? When a woman like Janet Reno is portrayed as a man, does that invoke some type of genetic deficiency with male traits?
2006-08-28 17:37:47
39.   Jeb
Some thoughts about the 21 games in 20 games that the Yanks just completed: The stretch was tough and the Yanks only managed to go 11-10. I know that most of us would have rather gone 14-7, but I think we'd all agree that having a 6.5 game lead after that stretch is pretty good.

Also, the 11-10 record looks more impressive when you consider that not only did the Yanks play 21 games in 20 days, but 14 of those games were on the road (6 on the west coast at the end of the string when the Yanks were really tired) and the combined winning percentages of those teams was .521 (after the fact). [FN1] Having to play 7 games against the Yankee Killer Halos, 5 games at the Fens and 3 games at the World Champs is pretty imposing, particularly where Moose wasn't available for 2 starts.

SO, all in all, I think that the 21 game stretch in 20 days was pretty successful and could have been much worse.

The greater concern to me at this point is that the Yanks have gone 1-4-1 in their last 6 series after going 12-1-1 before that. The only saving grace was destroying the Sox for 5 straight. I think that winning series is why the Yanks stayed in the race all season and I think that's something that needs to get turned around.

I also have lingering concerns about overuse of the pen, Mussina being hurt, the increasing unreliabiity of Jaret Wright and the continuing unreliability of the Unit.

I hope that Pavano does come back and makes us all eat our words, but I doubt it. Pitching is going to win the series and we'd all better hope that the Pen gets lots of rest before October b/c they're going to need to be ready. Thank God we only have a 4 man staff in the post-season.

[FN1] I didn't really know how to calculate this, but what I did was take, for example, the Angels winning percentage and multiply by 7 since they played 7 times, take the Sox winning percentage and multiply times 5, etc., etc., then added up the winning percentages of all the teams and divided by 21 to come up with the figure. That way I weighted the fact that the Yanks played winning teams like the Bosox and Angels more than losing teams like the Mariners and Orioles. There might be a better way to do it, but I don't know how.

2006-08-28 17:39:09
40.   nick
17 31 35 Max is right. The implication of this type of comment is that women aren't tough, which is obviously horseshit. And why so anxious about defending your right to be a jerk? Why not a simple apology? Simone has the right to be pissed off; she's a regular here, and it's not like she's hypersensitive or anything....
2006-08-28 17:41:27
41.   RIYank
Good call, Max. Would that Pavano had the heart and guts of Steffi Graf or Brandi Chastain.

And one cool thing about Bronx Banter is that the comments partake of the classiness of our hosts, with a much-appreciated dearth of the kind of crud they post in the game threads at Sons of Sam Horn.

2006-08-28 17:42:32
42.   Sliced Bread
I'm reserving judgment on Pavano until all the facts are in, but does this mean the Carl Pavano Precious Moments Figurine giveaway might be cancelled? Egads.
2006-08-28 17:45:41
43.   nick
38 In practice, depictions of women as male are mostly meant to mock/dismiss those women as being insufficiently feminine (because lots of guys are scared of tough women).

41 Exactly--is it really so tough to find some other venue to say crass dumb-ass shit?

2006-08-28 17:46:01
44.   eephus
35 Thanks, Max... I know people are kidding, so I'm generally willing to shrug these things off, but still -- I'd like to see Carl Pavano go through childbirth.

Wait, no... I really don't want to see that, do I? Bleargh. Bad, bad mental image.

2006-08-28 17:46:35
45.   Ken Arneson
This would be a good time to remind everyone of our very simple Baseball Toaster code of conduct:

http://fairpole.baseballtoaster.com/archives/407684.html

2006-08-28 17:53:34
46.   Dan-el
From the AP article on Pavano's injury:

Pavano lives in West Palm Beach and had permission to go home, Cashman said. Pavano said his lack of performance with the Yankees led to his decision not to initially inform the team.

"It's been pretty frustrating for not only the city, the team, my teammates, myself, management," he said. "It just seems like it's one thing after another. I'm not impervious to this because I make a lot of money and I play baseball."

After the accident, Pavano pitched four shutout innings that night for Class A Tampa at Brevard County, the first of three rehab starts.

"It just seems like there's a lot of distractions that are caused by me that go around with the team, and I figured that, at the time, it was something I could get through," he said. "I felt all right. I knew something was wrong, I didn't know the extent of it, but I figured that I'd pitch through it and it would get better. I just didn't seem to get better, and that's the only reason why I really went to the team."

2006-08-28 18:00:05
47.   randym77
Jeez. I almost feel for Pavano.
2006-08-28 18:02:24
48.   Alex Belth
I was in a place called Ferrisburg, which is between Middlebury and Burlington. It's near Lake Champlain. Em didn't grow up there, but when she and her sister got out of college her parents built a place up there. It's really gorgeous. I mean, I won't lie, I'd go crazy if I was there more than a week, it's just too isolated for me, but for a visit, it's sweet.
2006-08-28 18:13:23
49.   Max
47 Hey guys, I'm not trying to stand on a pedestal and clean this place up or defend Pavano...with jokes about wangs and johnsons, and the regular diatribes against the Sox, the air around here is always going to have some salt in it.

But I think people can be a bit more creative in dumping on Pavano (and in the process not insult respected members like Simone, Abby and other women). Otherwise, we're no better than Red Sox fans and their "Jeter Swallows" and "Gay-Rod" t-shirts (talk about insecure males).

I am curious regarding what it is Pavano has done (or not done) that makes him so disrespected by his teammates...other players have been injury prone and have sat out extended periods, but I guess Carl must really baby himself. Still, I can't believe the guy actually WANTs to be sitting out and perceived as a total wuss and the laughing stock of baseball.

2006-08-28 18:17:33
50.   Sliced Bread
It's easy to joke about Pavano, but if you really think about it, he's one of the saddest Yankees stories in recent years.

I was at the Stadium the day they introduced him in pinstripes, and there was such fanfare, such a buzz of bright promise about him.

Nobody said he was going to be the ace of the staff. His paycheck was too high, but I think everybody's expectations were reasonable.

Certainly, more was expected of Vazquez the previous season, and from Randy Johnson the following year.

Pavano came here with the best intentions, and his misfortune has been terribly frustrating for him, and the team.

I think this might be the saddest situation we've seen since Knoblauch imploded before our eyes, not that I'm comparing their plights.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-28 18:33:25
51.   randym77
Pavano pitched that game last year where A-Rod hit three homeruns. Angels 4, Yankees 12. Future sure did seem bright for him back then.

Rasner's line for the night: 6.0 IP, 7 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 0 BB, 5 SO, 1 HR, 2.76 ERA.

2006-08-28 18:48:41
52.   Sliced Bread
100% of Bronx Banterers agree:

Go A's! Whup those sorry Sox!

2006-08-28 18:49:07
53.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Peter Abraham suggest that this is a material breach and they could void Pavano's contract....

I'm all for it, even if it means 20 friggin millions down the friggin drain.

2006-08-28 18:49:08
54.   Simone
Max, nick, and RIYank, thanks for the positive comments.

50 Well said. The whole Pavano situation is just sad. He grew up a Yankee fan and pitched well in the World Series for the Marlins so I don't believe that he is scared or doesn't want to pitch for the Yankees. He has just had a terrible run of bad luck. It is ashame that his Yankee career has crashed and burned. I can't help still having a tiny bit of hope that he will still pitch this season.

2006-08-28 18:56:42
55.   vockins
50 I'm not as misty about Pavano.

Certainly Tampa/Brian Cashman deserve plenty of blame for signing him at all, but the fact of the matter is that the guy has done as much as you or I have to help the Yankees win. He is dead wood.

As far as his teammates are concerned, how would you feel if some jerkoff didn't show up for work for over a year and instead farted around West Palm Beach on disability? Four hundred and whatever days out, with no surgery? Jeez...

Pavano's grief isn't some kind of ARod situation. ARod has been phenomenal with some heavily scrutinized rough patches, while Pavano's done jack and shit since day one.

If Cashman can take advantage of this latest stupid move and cut Pavano lose free and clear, I'd say fantastic. There's far better ways to spend that money, definitely.

There's no Yankee I'd rather see gone more than him.

2006-08-28 19:01:31
56.   bp1
50 I remember one of the pre season shows when Kim Jones (? - not sure) interviewed both Pavano and Wright as they sat side by side in a couple chairs outside the Tampa facility, trading barbs. Wright says to Pavano with a hint of disbelief in his voice "You won 18 games last year??" and they laughed. I remember thinking "Man - these guys look great. Young. Big. Strong. Athletic looking. This could really be the start of something big.". Typical bout of pre-Opening-Day optimism bolstered by some media hype that I swallowed hook, line, and sinker.

Man, how I wanted those guys to pitch like they did during their glory years. More than anything, I wanted them both to wash the taste of the Damon Grand Slam out of my mouth.

Anyone remember how Pavano seemed snakebit by the infield defense last season? It seemed every game someone would boot a ball behind him and the wheels would fall off and the next thing you know there would be a crooked number on the scoreboard. A-Rod booted a few, if I recall, sort of like what he's been doing w/ Moose this year.

Gosh - was it really last season? Seems like a lifetime ago he was an active member of the team. Video footage of him in pinstripes should be black-n-white, it feels so old.

Dunno what to think about this latest news. I don't know the guy - so I can't comment on whether this is an historic run of bad luck or whether he's just a schmuck. I know that I will cheer my fool head off if he ever makes it back to the starting rotation, hoping he can be an impact player for us - positively, that is.

One thing for sure - the name Pavano will be remembered for years.

2006-08-28 19:11:18
57.   marc
Sox game underway with both Manny and Papi not playing. Don't know if they're on the bench or not. Esteban Loiza for Oakland.
2006-08-28 19:12:32
58.   eephus
I think what made Pavano so easy to mock was the whole "bruised buttocks" injury. Hurt shoulders, bone chips, strained backs, all that - hey, it could happen to anyone. But I'd never heard of anyone missing a few weeks because of bruised buttocks before. Of course that was only a few weeks out of the last 13 or so months of injuries, and it doesn't mean he wasn't trying (who knows?), but it just sounds so pathetic -- I think that's when he really became a punchline.
2006-08-28 19:12:48
59.   kdw
Wow, no Papi and no Manny in Boston's line up tonight. That's gotta be an ugly sight for Sox fans.
2006-08-28 19:21:58
60.   Sliced Bread
58 Exactly, eephus.

55 Pavano did have surgery on his elbow. He had bone chips removed in May I believe.

I don't know how much "farting around West Palm" he's done, as you state. I've seen him with the team.

If he's been scamming the Yanks, as you suggest, don't you think the front office would have been onto him by now, and called him on it a long time ago?

The fact is, unless you're his doctor, we have no idea how hurt, or not hurt he's been.

2006-08-28 19:31:42
61.   seamus
i appreciate the attempt to keep the conversation on Pavano mature around here. This site is always the best (especially when internet websites/bards/blogs can be so awful with vitriole). I tend to empathize with people a lot, so I'm guilty of feeling bad for Pavano. I also have gone through my own string of health struggles. Whereas historically I have been respected for my hard work, but last two years it is one thing after another and it seems unreal. So I kind of sympathize with Pavano. Maybe that is a little personal, but I cannot shake the feeling that I'm letting folks down and I would most definitely be tempted not to bring up something that might feed into that feeling for others. So I can understand what Pavano was thinking when he failed to bring up the accident.
2006-08-28 19:40:51
62.   Sliced Bread
61 Now, that's a take we haven't heard that helps put this Pavano thing in perspective.
I hope you're feeling better, and doing well, seamus.
2006-08-28 19:42:28
63.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Boston's lineup tonight would make KC proud..

Crisp
Cora
Loretta
Youk
Hinske
Lowell
Lopez
Pena (Carlos)
Pedoria

2006-08-28 19:43:56
64.   Ron Burgundy
63 Youkillis' .827 OPS is the highest OPS in that line-up. OUCH.
2006-08-28 19:50:23
65.   seamus
62 Thanks Sliced! I appreciate that.
2006-08-28 19:51:17
66.   Yu-Hsing Chen
64 you might get better results putting 9 Melky Cabrera in that lineup.
2006-08-28 19:52:02
67.   randym77
Big Papi has the flu. Manny's still having knee problems.

And who's that starting pitcher? Gabbard?

2006-08-28 19:52:54
68.   RIYank
64 But who's better in the A's line-up? Maybe Frank Thomas. So far they're making Kason Gabbard look like an ace.
Okay, an ace who walks three guys in the first three innings including Carlos Pena to lead off the third, but still, Kason has a no-hitter going.
2006-08-28 19:58:48
69.   JL25and3
60 I agree completely, Sliced. I feel plenty of frustration, but I think it's presumptuous to judge this as a question of character rather than of legitimate injury. I don't understand the bruised buttock thing, I'll admit, but then there are a lot of things I don't understand about pitching mechanics and about injuries.

If anyone has actual knowledge about his injuries being fake, or overblown, then by all means share it. Without that knowledge, people shouldn't be quick to judge. As I've said before, the most pertinent words here are: J. R. Richard.

61 My sincerest wishes for a better year ahead.

2006-08-28 20:05:46
70.   Max
61 seamus, hope you're doing better, and thanks for sharing that perspective. Keep your head up.
2006-08-28 20:06:22
71.   RIYank
Sox loaded the bases against Loiza: single, walk, hbp, but Youkilis struck out swinging to end it.
Ah... Kielty wrecks Gabbard's no-no with a RBI double.
2006-08-28 20:20:40
72.   Yu-Hsing Chen
Practically every out Gabbard has gotten so far are line drives to fielders or deep fly ...
2006-08-28 20:31:19
73.   RIYank
Was the last out of the third inning a ball that was actually past the wall? Did Youkilis rob Swisher of a grand slam? (I was listening but I missed that hit and I'm looking at Gameday, it looks like the out was hit beyond the left field wall.)
2006-08-28 20:36:51
74.   RIYank
Gabbard didn't help himself a lot with that balk, either. Hm, or two subsequent singles. Yow.
Red Sox Nation turns to the Patriots....
2006-08-28 20:46:08
75.   Ken Arneson
73 It was a fly ball just on the edge of the warning track.
2006-08-28 20:48:48
76.   wsporter
I was out in Oakland a couple of weeks ago and went to a game at the Coliseum. It was a Monday nighter against Texas. I strolled in wearing my Yankees gear which was limited to my 1996 edition cap. It got so damned cold by the third inning that I bought a bright yellow (chartreuse?) sweat shirt to stay warm, the Guinness and Jameson's wasn't working. The place is falling apart and looks like hell but what I'll always remember is that they sell Guinness there.

I just put that shirt back on. Go A's.

Carlos Pena is a lucky young man. He catches that ball it's at least 1 run maybe 2. Had he fallen a little further in he would have taken that little girl out. He's a lucky young man.

2006-08-28 20:53:53
77.   vockins
60 I am not a doctor, but I can say this much for certain:

1. He has been as productive as you or I have in over the last year

2. He was rumored from very credible sources that he wanted out of the Yankees

Would you rather have Carl Pavano or another $10 million a year? The only Yankees's charity cases I'm interested in supporting are the kids at Sloan Kettering.

2006-08-28 21:02:16
78.   RIYank
75 Thanks.

It's a fun game. Very relaxing. It fills me with great confidence. There's another Oakland hit. I guess that very low batting average thing is deceptive, they're obviously very good.

I'd be reasonably happy winning three out of the next six, even though they are all at the Stadium. After that the Yanks' schedule is very easy.

2006-08-28 21:24:50
79.   eephus
61 Good luck and best wishes, seamus.

Weird night when I end up feeling for Carl Pavano and, at this point, almost for the Red Sox (seriously, David Ortiz down with the flu? This is getting downright biblical). Goodnight all...

2006-08-28 21:27:20
80.   Stormer Sports
Ruh roh Scooby! No Manny for a while (as expected) and No Ortiz for a game or two.

No Damon.

No Pedro.

No Arroyo.

No Trades, No Abreu, no no no.

No Bench.

I know there is some baseball to play, but they sure look dejected in that dugout. How long before they start blaming the Yankees payroll and not Henry and Theo?

2006-08-28 21:44:12
81.   RIYank
Thomas and Swisher both go yard in the seventh off Foulke, and now a double for Scutaro. But I'd feel sorry for Pavano long before I feel bad for the Red Sox.

Red Sox Nation is looking to Foxboro; they'll return to blaming in February.

2006-08-28 21:44:37
82.   Zack
And Foulke comes in and gives up two taters...
2006-08-28 21:45:26
83.   monkeypants
Loaiza has gone seven innings for Oakland tonight:

7 IP, 0 ER.

That's three straight starts, 22.2 straight innings with 0 ER (1 R). Didn't this guy, well, suck for the Yankees?

At least he's taking it to the Sox tonight.

2006-08-28 21:48:03
84.   marc
I think that 5 game series knocked the crap out of both teams and they exhaustedly struggled after that. The Sox just didn't have the team to come back especially with the pitchers all sucking without Tek. The Yankees held up a lot better even if not very good.
2006-08-28 21:48:45
85.   RIYank
83 Remember, the Sox have scored six runs in the last four games. I mean, I give Loiaza credit, but not all the credit.
2006-08-28 21:58:55
86.   RIYank
My god, Adam Melhuse takes Foulke deep. Batting for Frank Thomas. Insult to injury.

Farnsworth can be maddening, but I'm thankful that Keith Foulke is not in pinstripes.

2006-08-28 22:03:01
87.   Max
83 I have a weird soft spot for Loaiza. As badly as he sucked for us, lost in the debacle of 2004 was the fact that he absolutely brought it against the Sox in the ALCS. Yes, he gave up a game-winning hit, but his stuff looked more live than most of the junk thrown by anyone not named Mussina, Lieber or Rivera.

He also didn't seem to be scared at all, and really pitched like he had nothing to lose. Might have been a fluke, but even Sox fans couldn't believe what they were seeing from him for most of the series.

2006-08-28 22:03:10
88.   marc
When the recriminations are going full blast I wouldn't be surprised if Foulke headed for a change of scenery. But the rest of their middle relief is mostly horrible also
2006-08-28 22:14:18
89.   LI yankee
So my fellow insomniacs and west coasters, 7 games up (8 in the loss column)...anyone ready to call it?
2006-08-28 22:22:53
90.   marc
89 I'm going to wait a little before I call it. hell, they could win 4 or 5 in a row and we could lose that. We're close but not at those being struck by lightening or an asteroid odds yet.
2006-08-28 22:40:32
91.   LI yankee
90 Yeah I'm thinking when (if) the Sox fall below the Blue Jays, then it's sealed. That would most likely mean a 9 or 10 game cushion with at most 30 games left. The way they are playing, I think Toronto will indeed get 2nd.
2006-08-28 22:42:20
92.   LI yankee
90 I think when (if) Boston falls below Toronto, then it is sealed. That will most likely mean a 9 or 10 game cushion with less than 30 games left. I think Boston will indeed finish 3rd the way they are playing.
2006-08-28 22:43:15
93.   LI yankee
Oops, sorry for the double post.

Need. Sleep. Now.

2006-08-28 23:13:07
94.   Stormer Sports
EPSN is reporting that Ortiz is out indefinitely. The DH is heading back to Boston to undergo the kitchen sink of tests in an attempt to trace the irregular heartbeat.

Francona saying he'll be back "when he gets a clean bill of health."

2006-08-28 23:18:45
95.   Stormer Sports
92

It's over dude. Manny is out. If Ortiz misses more than a week or two, it's done. I for one will not harbor doubts or trepidations based in 2004. Let's get back the confidence and call it, right now.

2006-08-29 04:51:06
96.   Simone
87 I feel the same way about Loaiza. He was one of the bright spots in that horrific forgettable 2004 ALCS. He gave the Yankees a fighting chance when he was in the game which is more than could be said for most of the other pitchers. Whenever I see Loaiza pitch against teams not named the Yankees, I wish him success.

94 Ortiz may torment the Yankees, but I wish him good health. I hope the irregular heartbeat isn't a serious problem and he can return to the game completely recovered.

2006-08-29 05:33:05
97.   Sliced Bread
Weather doesn't look good for tonight's game.

According to Weather.com, there's a 90%-100% chance of rain in the 6 hours leading up to the game. Then, there's a 70% chance of rain throughout the night.

Looks like they might have to play two on Thursday.

2006-08-29 05:37:31
98.   Jeb
Nobody commented on my post earlier, as there was a raging debate on which female body part most described Pavano. I'm giving it another try. I don't post much on here, but would love some thoughts from everyone about this.

Some thoughts about the 21 games in 20 games that the Yanks just completed: The stretch was tough and the Yanks only managed to go 11-10. I know that most of us would have rather gone 14-7, but I think we'd all agree that having a 6.5 game lead after that stretch is pretty good.

Also, the 11-10 record looks more impressive when you consider that not only did the Yanks play 21 games in 20 days, but 14 of those games were on the road (6 on the west coast at the end of the string when the Yanks were really tired) and the combined winning percentages of those teams was .521 (after the fact). [FN1] Having to play 7 games against the Yankee Killer Halos, 5 games at the Fens and 3 games at the World Champs is pretty imposing, particularly where Moose wasn't available for 2 starts.

SO, all in all, I think that the 21 game stretch in 20 days was pretty successful and could have been much worse.

The greater concern to me at this point is that the Yanks have gone 1-4-1 in their last 6 series after going 12-1-1 before that. The only saving grace was destroying the Sox for 5 straight. I think that winning series is why the Yanks stayed in the race all season and I think that's something that needs to get turned around.

I also have lingering concerns about overuse of the pen, Mussina being hurt, the increasing unreliabiity of Jaret Wright and the continuing unreliability of the Unit.

I hope that Pavano does come back and makes us all eat our words, but I doubt it. Pitching is going to win the series and we'd all better hope that the Pen gets lots of rest before October b/c they're going to need to be ready. Thank God we only have a 4 man staff in the post-season.

[FN1] I didn't really know how to calculate this, but what I did was take, for example, the Angels winning percentage and multiply by 7 since they played 7 times, take the Sox winning percentage and multiply times 5, etc., etc., then added up the winning percentages of all the teams and divided by 21 to come up with the figure. That way I weighted the fact that the Yanks played winning teams like the Bosox and Angels more than losing teams like the Mariners and Orioles. There might be a better way to do it, but I don't know how.

2006-08-29 06:00:10
99.   seamus
69 70 79 thanks for the supportive words.

Go Yankees!

2006-08-29 06:04:14
100.   seamus
98 I agree that though we wanted more, we have to consider the stretch a success, particularly with the success against the red sox. Also, our lead is now seven games.

The bullpen is obviously stretched thin and I hope we can generate a large enough lead to give our starters some rest too (maybe limit them to 5 inning starts for the least couple of weeks - pray for a big enough lead to do this). And a rest or two couldn't hurt either!

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-08-29 09:09:30
101.   jayd
So my question is:

"While some might wonder if the Yanks would consider trying to use Pavano's non-disclosure as a way to void the remainder of his four-year, $39.95 million contract, several agents and baseball officials said it's unlikely such a case would stand up.
Since Pavano was hurt in an accident - as opposed to participating in an activity that is prohibited - it would be difficult to claim he violated the terms of his deal, according to the agents.
That said, Pavano did have an obligation to inform the Yanks, according to one agent, because they have the right to have him treated by whomever they want for an injury; by not telling them of the injury, Pavano denied the team that opportunity. "
So is the latter a way out for the Yanks – not fulfilling his obligation to inform them?

2006-08-29 09:18:17
102.   Clay Caviness
So, yeah, A-Rod's been slumping the last week. That said, here are some August only stats:

A-Rod: .277/.371/.465
Jeter: .277/.367/.446
Posada: .232/.301/.427

A-Rod hating continues, Jeter and Posada get off relatively free.

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