Baseball Toaster: Bronx Banter : Sunday's Game - Roster Extravaganza Edition!

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2008 Draft Roundup
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Roger Angell
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Chuck Korr: Part 1 Part 2
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Tim Marchman
Marvin Miller
Rob Neyer: Part 1, Part 2
Buster Olney: April 2003, Sept. 2004
Buck O'Neil
Joe Posnanski
Alan Schwarz
Joel Sherman
Tom Verducci

Excerpts

Juicing the Game by Howard Bryant Part 1 Part 2
Forging Genius by Steven Goldman Part 1 Part 2
How About That! by Stephen Borelli
The Crowd Sounds Happy by Nicholas Dawidoff
The Last Nine Innings by Charles Euchner
Clemente by David Maraniss
The Soul of Baseball by Joe Posnanaski
Glenn Stout and Richard A. Johnson:
Yankee Century: Part 1 Part 2
Red Sox Century: 1 2 3 4
The Dodgers: 120 Years of Dodgers Baseball

Players

25-man Roster:

Infielders:
J. Giambi BR BP E MLB
R. Cano BR BP E MLB
D. Jeter BR BP E MLB
A. Rodriguez BR BP E MLB
W. Betemit BR BP E MLB mi
C. Ransom BR BP E MLB mi

Outfielders:
B. Abreu BR BP E MLB
J. Damon BR BP E MLB
X. Nady BR BP E MLB
H. Matsui BR BP E MLB mi
B. Gardner BR E MLB mi

Catchers:
I. Rodriguez BR BP E MLB
J. Molina BR BP E MLB

Starting Pitchers:
M. Mussina BR BP BC E
A. Pettitte (L) BR BP BC E
S. Ponson BR BP BC E mi
D. Rasner BR BP BC E mi

Relief Pitchers:
M. Rivera BR BP BC E
D. Marte BR BP BC E
J. Veras BR BP BC E mi
E. Ramirez BR BP BC E mi
B. Bruney BR BP BC E mi
D. Robertson BR BC E mi
B. Traber (L) BR BP BC E mi
C. Britton BR BP BC E mi

15-day DL:
J. Chamberlain BR BP BC E
D. Giese BR BP BC E mi
J. Posada BR BP E MLB
C. Wang BR BP BC E
60-day DL:
C. Pavano BR BP BC E mi
J. Albaladejo BR BP BC E mi
A. Brackman BC
H. Sanchez BC mi

Coaches:
J. Girardi (Mgr) BR BP BC
R. Thomson (Bench) BC
Kevin Long (Hit) BR
D. Eiland (Pitch) BR BP BC
B. Meacham (3B) BR BP BC
T. Peña (1B) BR BP BC
M. Harkey (Pen) BR BP BC

40-man Roster:
AAA
S. Duncan BR BP E MLB mi
J. Miranda BR BC mi
M. Cabrera BR BP E MLB
J. Christian BR BP E MLB mi
P. Hughes BR BP BC E mi
I. Kennedy BR BP BC E mi
C. Wright (L) BR BP BC E mi
S. Patterson BR BC mi
AA
F. Cervelli BR BC mi
J. Marquez BR BC mi DL

Select Minor Leaguers:

AAA Scranton Wilkes-Barre Yankees:
B. Castro BR mi DL
C. Basak BR BP BC E MLB mi
E. Duncan BC mi
N. Green BR mi
B. Broussard BR mi
M. Carson BC mi
C. Moeller BR BP E MLB mi
C. Stewart BR BP E MLB mi
J. Brown BC mi DL
A. Aceves BR mi
K. Igawa (L) BR BP BC E JB mi
P. Coke (L) BC mi
M. Melancon BC mi
J.B. Cox BC mi
S. Strickland BR BC mi
S. Jackson BC mi
E. Milton BR BC mi DL
V. Zambrano BR BC mi DL

AA Trenton Thunder:
K. Russo BR mi
R. Peña BC mi DL
C. Malec BC mi
M. Vechionacci BC mi DL
A. Jackson BC mi
C. Curtis BC mi
E. Gonzalez BR mi
P.J. Pilittere BC mi
J. Jones BC mi
G. Kontos BC mi
J. Nuñez BC mi
B. Smith BC mi DL
A. Claggett BC mi
O. Perez BR BC mi
M. Gardner BC mi
K. Whelan BC mi
W. Arias (L) BC mi

A Tampa Yankees:
E. Nuñez BC mi
C.J. Henry BC mi DL
T. Battle BC mi
K. Anson BC mi
J. Gil BC mi
A. Horne BC mi DL
Z. McAllister BC mi
W. De La Rosa (L) BC mi
C. Garcia BC mi

Low-A Charleston RiverDogs:
J. Snyder BC mi
M. Cusick BC mi
B. Suttle BC mi
A. Romine BC mi
J. Montero BC mi
D. Betances BC mi
J. Heredia BC mi
J. Ortiz BC mi
C. Heyer BC mi

Low-A Staten Island Yankees:
D. Adams mi
P. Venditte mi

Rookie Gulf Coast Yankees:
C. Joseph mi
C. Smith mi
K. Higashioka mi

Key:
BR = Baseball-Reference
BP = Baseball Prospectus
BC = Baseball Cube (past mL stats)
mi = MiLB.com (current mL stats)
E = ESPN (current splits, game logs)
MLB = MLB.com hit charts
JB = Japanese Baseball.com

The Recently Departed

2008 Yankees:
R. Sexson BR BP E MLB
M. Ensberg BR BP E MLB
A. Gonzalez BR BP E MLB mi
K. Farnsworth BR BP BC E
L. Hawkins BR BP BC E

Nady/Marte Trade:
J. Tabata BC mi
R. Ohlendorf BR BP BC E
D. McCutchen BC mi
J. Karstens BR BP BC E mi

2008 Campers/mLers:
C. Woodward BR BP BC E MLB PHI mL
J. Lane BR mi BOS mL
G. Porter BC mi WAS mL
J.D. Closser BR mi SD mL
S. Henn (L) BR BP BC E mi SD
H. Phillips (L) BR BC mi TB mL
S. White BR BC mi

2007 Yankees:
J. Torre (Mgr) BR BP BC LAD
D. Mientkiewicz BR BP BC E MLB PIT mL
A. Phillips BR BP BC E MLB mi CIN mL
J. Phelps BR BP BC E MLB STL mL
M. Cairo BR BP BC E MLB SEA
K. Thompson BR BP BC E MLB mi PIT
B. Sardinha BC mi SEA mL
W. Nieves BR BP BC E MLB WAS mL
R. Clemens BR BP BC E mi
T. Clippard BR BP BC E mi WAS
L. Vizcaino BR BP BC E COL $7.5m/2yrs
M. DeSalvo BR BP BC E mi ATL mL
M. Myers (L) BR BP BC E LAD mL
R. Villone (L) BR BP BC E mi STL mL
S. Proctor BR BP BC E LAD
J. Brower BR BP BC E mi CIN mL
C. Bean BR BP BC E mi ATL mL

2007 Campers and mLers:
E. Durazo BR BP BC E MLB mi
A. Cannizaro BR BP BC E MLB mi TB mL
A. Chavez BR BP BC E MLB mi LAD mL
K. Reese BR BP BC E MLB mi
R. Chavez BR BP BC E MLB mi PIT mL
O. Santos BC mi BAL mL
T. Pratt BR BP BC E MLB
T.J. Beam BR BP BC E mi PIT mL
B. Kozlowski (L) BR BP BC E mi Japan

Molina Trade:
J. Kennard BC mi

Abreu Trade
M. Smith (L) BR BP BC E mi PHI
C. Monasterios BC mi PHI
J. Sanchez mi PHI

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Sunday's Game - Roster Extravaganza Edition!

2006-03-19 19:43

by Cliff Corcoran

The Yankees shutout the Indians at home yesterday 2-0 behind a fantastic outing by Randy Johnson with all five of the returned WBC players seeing action, but before we get to the usual game-in-a-box summary, I want to address the flurry of cuts the Yankees made yesterday. Here are the players optioned or reassigned to the minors yesterday:

1B - Eric Duncan, 3B - Marcos Vechionacci, SS - Ramiro Pena, C - David Parrish, OFs - Melky Cabrera and Mitch Jones, SP - Sean Henn, RPs - J. Brent Cox, T.J. Beam, Frank Brooks.

Duncan, Vechionacci, Pena, Cabrera and Cox are potential future stars who impressed Torre and his coaching staff this spring, but need further seasoning in the minors. Cox, who will be 22 in June, is the oldest of that bunch. Jones also impressed at the plate but remains a poor defender with high strikeout rates, who, at age 28, has yet to show that he's outgrown triple-A. Sean Henn had an awful spring (9.45 ERA, 6 2/3 IP, 11 H, 7 R, 7 BB, 4 K) and will return to triple-A where he'll slip behind DeSalvo and Rasner on the depth chart. Beam is 25, has never pitched above high-A ball, barely pitched this spring (3 IP) and didn't do well in that limited exposure (6 H, 3 R, despite a solid 4:1 K/BB). Brooks threw just two uneventful innings this spring and will spend the season as a triple-A roster filler. Parrish sucks and proved it by going 0 for 8 this spring.

In addition to those cuts, Senator Al Lieter officially announced his retirement before coming into yesterday's game to get one last out (a groundout by Eduardo Perez). With those eleven men out of the picture for the moment, one can break the remaining campers into four groups: those that have made the 25-man roster, extra catchers, those rehabbing from injuries, and those battling for one of the final spots on the 25-man freed up by one of those injuries. Here's how they break down:

Made the roster (22):

1B - Jason Giambi (L)
2B - Robinson Cano (L)
SS - Derek Jeter (R)
3B - Alex Rodriguez (R)
C - Jorge Posada (S)
RF - Gary Sheffield (R)
CF - Johnny Damon (L)
LF - Hideki Matsui (L)
DH - Bernie Williams (S)

R - Andy Phillips (1B/3B)
R - Miguel Cairo (IF)
R - Kelly Stinnett (C)

L - Randy Johnson
R - Mike Mussina
R - Chien-Ming Wang
R - Shawn Chacon

R - Mariano Rivera
R - Kyle Farnsworth
R - Tanyon Sturtze
L - Mike Myers
L - Ron Villone
R - Jaret Wright

Extra catchers (3):

R - Wil Nieves
S - Ben Davis
R - Omir Santos

Injured or rehabbing (4):

R - Carl Pavano (mangina)
R - Octavio Dotel (elbow)
R - Aaron Small (hamstring)
R - Colter Bean (knee)

Batting for a spot (14):

OF - Bubba Crosby (L)
OF - Kevin Reese (L)
OF - Kevin Thompson (R)
IF - Felix Escalona (R)
IF - Russ Johnson (R)
IF - Kevin Howard (IF)

R - Ramiro Mendoza
R - Scott Erickson
L - Matt Smith
R - Scott Proctor
R - Matt Childers
L - Dusty Bergman
R - Mark Corey
R - Jose Veras

Taking the second part first, Bergman, Corey and Veras have pitched just five innings combined and Bergman and Veras have pitched poorly at that. I can only assume they're still here just to eat innings. Here are the spring lines of the other five:

Pitcher IP H R ER HR BB K W-L ERA

Mendoza 7 1/3 6 2 2 1 4 8 1-0 2.45

Erickson 10 1/3 9 7 3 2 3 8 0-2 2.61

Smith 3 1/3 2 1 1 1 1 5 0-0 2.70

Proctor 6 2 1 1 1 4 3 0-0 1.50

Childers 3 2/3 2 0 0 0 0 3 0-0 0.00

Pitcher	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	W-L	ERA
Mendoza	7 1/3	6	2	2	1	4	8	1-0	2.45
Erickson	10 1/3	9	7	3	2	3	8	0-2	2.61
Smith	3 1/3	2	1	1	1	1	5	0-0	2.70
Proctor	6	2	1	1	1	4	3	0-0	1.50
Childers	3 2/3	2	0	0	0	0	3	0-0	0.00

The 27-year-old Childers has an established track record of minor league mediocrity, but even that would be better than the devastating ineffectiveness of Scott Erickson, who has gotten the longest look of the five above. The same is true of Scott Proctor, who's now 29. Better than either of those two, however, would be either Matt Smith or Ramiro Mendoza. Mendoza would seem to have the inside track given his history with the Joe Torre Yankees and the extended look he's gotten this spring. Best of all, he may just be the best choice. Smith is exciting because he's a homegrown lefty with impressive strikeout rates, but he's also had control issues, got lit up in the Arizona Fall League last year, and has just a half season of triple-A pitching under his belt. In addition to which, although he's just emerged on the Yankees' radar, Smith will be 27 in June.

Mendoza, meanwhile, could be a great boon to the team if he's fully healthy. Remember, when Mendoza was first with the Yankees, his problem was always durability. Brought up as a starter in 1996, he was converted to a swing man in 1997 and continually lobbied to return to the rotation despite the fact that he pitched better out of the pen and would always come down with a sore arm after making a few starts. From 1997 to 1999, Mendoza pitched 387 2/3 innings making 35 starts and coming out of the pen 98 times. Here are his aggregate splits from those three seasons:

As starter: 215 1/3 IP, 246 H, 23 HR, 4.81 K/9, 2.09 BB/9, 13-9, 4.47 ERA
As reliever: 172 IP, 183 H, 14 HR, 5.39 K/9, 1.82 BB/9, 14-8, 6 SV, 3.24 ERA

In those three seasons, he posted a combined line of 3.92 ERA, 5.06 K/9, 1.97 BB/9. He then spent three more season in New York primarily in relief in which he posted a 3.77 ERA with a 5.62 K/9 and a 2.06 BB/9. However, those 387 2/3 innings and 133 appearances in three years, as has so often been the case under Joe Torre, took a lot out of Mendoza's arm, limiting him to 14 games in 2000. When he became eligible for free agency after the 2002 season, the Yankees, who had insight into the health of Mendoza's right wing, let him sign with the rival Red Sox, whose fans soon labeled him the embedded Yankee as arm troubled lead to a 6.75 ERA in 2003. His effectiveness returned in 2005, but his health did not, limiting him to just 27 appearances, all but one in the second half of the season. He then underwent rotator cuff surgery and signed a minor league deal with the Yankees in order to rehab with his old team in the hope of making a difference down the stretch. His rehab took a bit longer than expected but, now working a second minor league deal, it's not out of the question to see the 33-year-old Mendoza return to something resembling his old form, particularly given his strong showing on his rehab stint last year and in camp this spring.

Switching over to the offense, Bubba Crosby likely won't lose his roster spot to the series of minor injuries he's had this spring (finger, hamstring), but the Kevins (Thompson and Reese) have certainly provided Joe Torre with reason to think twice. Having entered camp with superior better minor league track records than Crosby, Reese and Thompson have hit .316/.395/.350 and .436/.476/.590 respectively while Crosby has hit just .190/.227/.381.

Meanwhile, the Yankees decision to leave Carl Pavano behind in Tampa and on the DL during the first 15 days of April, when the schedule only requires four starters, has opened up a spot for an extra infielder which could be Escalona, who has hit .273/.351/.455 this spring and can play all four infield positions. It's encouraging to see Kevin Howard still around, though he has yet to play above double-A and is hitting just .200/.227/.450 this spring. The Yankees should be thinking of Howard as the back-up infielder for 2007 and his continued presence in camp suggests they just might be. Russ Johnson, meanwhile, got off to a slow start due to a balky back, but has come on strong of late and despite his .190 batting average, his .333 OBP and .429 SLG hold up particularly well against Escalona's numbers, particularly when one considers the fact that Escalona is hitting 83 points higher than Johnson, but leads him by no more than 26 points in either OBP or SLG. Meanwhile, the performances of both players reveal the foolishness of the Miguel Cairo signing (Cairo's hitting .250/.302/.375 in nearly twice as many at-bats as Johnson). Johnson's an old hand, but he's exactly the sort of player the Yankees could use on the bench, a true utility man who can play all over the infield as well as the outfield corners, takes his walks and shows occasional power.

Here's hoping that with the WBCers back in camp guys like Johnson, Escalona and the Kevins continue to get enough playing time to convince Torre and his new, more outspoken coaching staff that there is a better way to assemble a roster than to look by looking at player contracts.

As for that game . . .

Lineup:

Johnny Damon DH
Derek Jeter SS
Jason Giambi 1B
Alex Rodriguez 3B
Gary Sheffield RF
Hideki Matsui LF
Bernie Williams CF
Robinson Cano 2B
Kelly Stinnett C

Subs: Andy Phillips 1B, Felix Escalona 2B, Ramiro Pena SS, Marcos Vechionacci 3B, Omir Santos C, Mitch Jones RF, Kevin Reese CF, Kevin Thompson LF, Eric Duncan DH

Big Hits: Jeter (1 for 3) doubled, Cano went 2 for 3. Gary Sheffield went 1 for 3, his single counting as a big hit because it was just his second of the spring in 24 at-bats.

Who Pitched Well: Everybody. Even Al Leiter, who got his only, and final, batter for the last out of his career. Sturtze pitched a perfect eighth. Farnsworth allowed one hit in the seventh, walking none. Myers allowed a hit while finishing Leiter's inning. Randy Johnson, meanwhile, was fierce. Just four hits and no walks in six innings while striking out nine. Fierce.

Oopsies: Throwing errors by Jeter and the departing Pena.

Ouchies: Carl Pavano threw 35 pitches on the field with a batter standing in the box but not taking swings. Johnny Damon went 1 for 2 as the Yankee DH. That he played at all is proof that the Yankees aren't that concerned about his shoulder. Meanwhile, in the comments to my previous post, reader unpopster shared a Rotoworld report that Jaret Wright tweaked his back fielding bunts before yesterday's game. No official word on that yet, nor any information as to the severity of the injury, though it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if Wright's injury opened yet another roster spot, forcing the Yankees to go with eleven rather than twelve pitchers with DeSalvo as the next in line should Pavano not return in time to fill the fifth-starter spot.

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Comments (54)

Show/Hide Comments 1-50

2006-03-20 00:21:06

1. mikeplugh

It looks like we have tremendous depth in the long relief department this season. With Aaron Small, Ramiro Mendoza, and others lined up to compete for a prime role in the rotation, we have something useful in the making. Once everyone is more healthy that is.

I'd really like to see Kevin Thompson get a roster spot. I know Joe doesn't see much playing time for him with all the star quality regulars, but a few young guys on the team is always a good thing.

I always used to say, in basketball circles, that I'd rather see the Knicks add a top quality CBA player to the team at a low salary, than a journeyman veteran. You may just strike gold and get a guy that can contribute once given the opportunity. You know the journeyman is going to be super mediocre, or else he wouldn't be a journeyman.

2006-03-20 04:05:08

2. Rob Gee

Indeed mike 1, that's what I thought the lesson last year was - striking gold with lesser known quantities than striking out with journeyed veterans.

And yet, with two weekes to go, for every open roster spot we see more of the same "veteran" slop. CF, check. Back-up C, check. Back-up IF, check. Back-up OF, check. I suppose one could quibble about Back-up 1B - but I'm not really sure that was ever an open spot.

What still amazes me is how much argument I got when I tried to point out that CASH-man is a mediocre, not horrible, but average GM. The main counterpoint smacked of Scooby-doo logic: It was Tampa all along! Except now we see what the Cashman regime holds dear.

The worst part - now we've signed more slop to hang out in the minors and wait for their turn in the rotation. What are the odds that Erickson makes the first start that requires a 5th? 2:1? 1:1!? We'll see DeSalvo in May or June, unless Hideo Nomo becomes available again. At least Mendoza does seem to have something left, and I didn't realize he's only 33. Even if he's holding a magic birth certificate, he's still got something left and the Torre trust has already been established.

We can all see that there's no way Cairo should be on this team. Crosby neither (at least not based on this spring). Yet, with better options around, why will they make it? At least Leiter retired!

2006-03-20 05:29:34

3. mikeplugh

I know Rob. I couldn't believe Mendoza is only 33, too. Seems like he's been around forever.

For my money, I'll take Cairo. For one simple reason. I always thought it was good to have a guy like Sojo on the roster to share his experience with the younger guys. Jeter claims that Sojo has taught him more about playing the game than anyone in his life.

That having been said, Cairo is insurance and he could be a good mentor for a guy like Cano. I don't know what kind of relationship they'll strike up, but if Cano matures and learns a few things in the process, he'll be worth it.

The rest of the spots should go to young players. Right now, we don't have that high priced veteran bat that the Yankees always seem to land for the stretch run. Cecil Fielder, Dave Justice, Darryl Strawberry. Use that spot to see if one of your youngsters can play himself into a regular spot. Bernie got that chance. Jeter and Posada both got that chance. Hell, Cano got that chance last year.

Sometimes it doesn't work out. I think of Erick Almonte and Melky Cabrera off the top of my head. Sometimes it does, and the team is better off for the injection of youth it brings to a veteran team. Try it Cash. If it doesn't work, go get yourself Reggie Sanders from Kansas City or someone like that.

2006-03-20 06:55:42

4. The Mick 536

I don't see the need for people with experience who cannot play now. We have coaches for that in abundance.

Slop be a very good word for what the bench looks like, including Bernie. And the rotation is a mess. Deep doooodooooo if you ask me. And not an arm to bail out the ship should it start wobbling.

I haven't believed anything the front office has put forward since they tried to convince me that El Duque lived on a barge awaiting rescue. Keep the kids and deep six the drek.

As for the WBC, takes too much out of the guys. They wanted to win without playing. It will take its toll. I predict, G-d save me, that George will be vindicated.

Root for Cuba.

Too bad Fidel didn't have a fast ball. He would have been playing for the Senators rather than against them.

2006-03-20 08:04:23

5. bp1

I was glad I got to see Al Leiter's final appearance. It was no secret that he had plans to retire, but I had no idea this was how it was going to play out. I saw him warming in the bullpen and I thought for a minute that he had a change of heart.

He's a classy guy. It was a nice exit. I admit to being a little thick throated when he started walking off the mound. No matter if it's "time" or not, it's gotta be a tough thing to do. Nice that he could walk off with his head held high.

There's no doubt he'll be successful in whatever he decides to do from this point forward. I wish him the best.

2006-03-20 08:20:59

6. Dimelo

Just read this line on BDD:
The Boston Globe: Chris Snow Reports Bronson Arroyo Has Been Traded to the Cincinnati Reds for Wily Mo Pena

2006-03-20 08:26:01

7. Alex Belth

That's a funny trade. Wily Mo is like Glenn Allen Hill, but better. Low OBP but high mash ratio--the back-to-back-to-back from Cookie, Manny and Wily Mo will be momentus. The guy is built like a gorilla.

2006-03-20 08:31:15

8. unpopster

correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Willy Mo Pena come up in the Yankee farm system?

Also, this trade says a lot about what the Sox think of their offense. Me thinks there are many in the Boston FO who believe that Lowell is a big-time dud.

2006-03-20 08:38:48

9. joejoejoe

Ignoring his reappearance in pinstripes in '05 as The Bane of Darin Erstad, Leiter will be best remembered by most NYY fans as one of a string of excellent pitching prospects in the 80s that went on to success elsewhere while the Yanks squandered the prime of Don Mattingly with a rotation of journeymen instead of giving youth a chance.

In hindsight, Doug Drabek, Bob Tewksbury, Dennis Rasmussen and Al Leiter may have produced better results in the Bronx than Rick Rhoden, Steve Trout, Jesse Barfield and John Montefusco.

2006-03-20 08:47:51

10. Rob Gee

ESPN is now reporting the same thing with Wily as a lefty platoon with Trot in RF.

From that perspective it makes sense:

Wily (2003-2005)

vs. RHP: .237 .286 .454 .740 (562 AB's)
vs. LHP: .276 .347 .536 .883 (250 AB's)

Seems like a high cost to pay for a platooner, but he is young (24), cheap ($440,000), and has TUP.

And FYI: Wily allowed us to regain the rights to Drew Henson.

2006-03-20 08:56:55

11. YankeeInMichigan

Yes, Willy Mo Pena was once a Yankee prospect. He was traded to the Reds as part of the Henson deal.

As for Cliff's statement that Matt Smith is 27, what's wrong with that? Ever hear of a guy named Guidry?

2006-03-20 08:57:08

12. joejoejoe

AP: "FORT MYERS, Fla. (AP) - The Boston Red Sox traded right-handed pitcher Bronson Arroyo to the Cincinnati Reds for outfielder Wily Mo Pena on Monday.

Pena batted .254 with 19 homers and 51 RBIs last season and struck out 116 times with 20 walks. A 24-year-old right-handed hitter, he could play right field instead of lefty Trot Nixon when left-handers pitch against Boston."

This is a great deal for Boston. Wily Mo could thrive in a clubhouse with Ortiz and Manny as examples in the clubhouse and is certainly an upgrade over Kevin Millar. And now the rotation is Bloodysock, Beckett, Wells, Wakefield, and Clement and the kids Papelbon, Delcameron and Lester ready in reserve.

I'm seeing the Sox neck and neck with the Yanks all year.

2006-03-20 09:04:07

13. Knuckles

Dammit, their offense just got a little scarier again. Let's just hope the platoon keeps him and Trot from getting into any kind of groove. Brandon Arroyo's declining K rate and other peripherals justify trading him now. We can only hope he goes out and throws a no hitter in May, to make Sux fans wail and moan a little bit, even if they did get the good end of the trade. When is Pena arb eligible?

2006-03-20 09:04:45

14. Rob Gee

9 Also Jose Rijo but at least we got a younger, but becoming more aloof, Ricky H. in that deal...

2006-03-20 09:11:49

15. debris

The other piece of this is that Nixon is a) fragile b) in his walk year. Pena is under Sox control for three years.

According to Stats, he, despite coming in at 245 lbs, is fast and has a cannon for an arm.

He has huge power, huge holes in his swing. He does crush left handed pitching, which Nixon does not. And he's only 24 and was a good MLB hitter at age 22. He's Dominican and should fit in very well under the tutelage of Papi and Manny.

On the flip side, he comes from a real launching pad in Cincinnati and will have to adjust to AL pitching, which could be a huge challenge to him.

Overall, we have to be thrilled with the notion of turning Arroyo into a young, cheap stud.

2006-03-20 09:18:54

16. debris

Knuckles,

Pena has 2.10 years of service. He was arbitration eligible this year, but signed for $1.25 M.

2006-03-20 09:21:35

17. Rob Gee

That is, debris until Wily starts striking out in crucial situations.

I can imagine the tensions on both sides so well now. Our first series, we're up 5-4 in the 7th runners on first and second with 1 out. We bring in Halloween to face Trot - Shaky brings in Wily.

You better hope Wily produces in those first few situations, or that stud become one nervous dud.

2006-03-20 09:29:39

18. jedi

Wow, I think this is a scary trade from a Yanks perspective. They just got their replacement for the aging Trot. Gotta respect this trade awhole lot as Willy Mo has alot of upside and has not had a breakout year yet which everyone is expecting from his current performances with the Reds.

This trade never would have happened without Theo though. The guy just one upped cashman big time because he conned Arroyo into signing a below market contract this past Jan thinking he was staying for the sox for several years. Little did he know Theo was just using him as a pawn in his big game of chess with the Yanks.

Hands down, Theo has to be smartest GM in baseball. How does he pull off these trades without giving up anything majorly valuable?

2006-03-20 09:38:02

19. debris

Rob,

No doubt Willy will strike out in crucial situations, non-crucial situations. He might even strike out when he's not even up. Willy being Willy? But he'll certainly crush his share.

Ted Lilly has owned the Sox over the last two seasons. Willy will make this ownership position that much harder to maintain.

2006-03-20 09:38:22

20. Cliff Corcoran

11 Guidry was 24 when he broke into the majors. When he was 27 he was enjoying his legendary 25-3 season.

As for Pena, helluva job by the Sox there. I just feel for the guy who drafted Wily Mo in my fantasty draft yesterday thinking he'd finally get a full season in now that Adam Dunn's moving to first base.

As for Pena's Yankee past, the Yanks signed him to a five year deal worth $3.7 million when he was just 17 years old. At age 18 he hit .205/.268/.361 in the Sally League and they flipped him for Drew Henson and Michael Coleman before the 2001 season. They had traded Henson to the Reds the previous July in the Denny Neagle deal despite his hitting .287/.347/.439 in double-A at age 20. Coleman, meanwhile, was a 25-year-old version of Pena at the time who just never panned out (remember his two weeks as a Yankee in 2001?). The Yanks soured on Pena too quickly, but the trade wasn't as awful as it looks in retrospect.

2006-03-20 09:43:29

21. YankeeInMichigan

Cincinnatti's front office never ceases to amaze. Arroyo throws a few too many fly balls to survive in Cincy. In 2005, Arroyo served up 15 dingers in Fenway. This year, he'll be competing with Milton (21), Ortiz (17) and Claussen (15) in the GABP Home Run Derby.

I have yet to see the Reds make the obvious move of going after a ground ball pitcher.

2006-03-20 09:46:56

22. Zack

I'm not sure I see the logic in the Pena trade. Strictly speaking, yes: Sox have an abundance of arms, need a left fielder. Situation solved. But Pena in no way fits in with the so called organizational philosophy of Theo, considering he has a career OBP of .303 and average of .240. He has hit .230 on the road for his career, and has 5 times as many k's as bb's.

Hes young with time to grow, but is he really going to suddenly become someone different than what he is, a more extreme Soriano? He'll hit a lot of doubles and HR's in Fenway and strike out a lot against much better pitching...

2006-03-20 09:47:52

23. Zack

As a platoon/backup, yeah I can dig that, but as the lf or the future, not so sure...

2006-03-20 10:04:02

24. debris

Cliff,

Lefties do, historically, develop more slowly than RHP. The Sox have a very interesting one to keep an eye on in Lenny DiNardo. Pretty strong minor league numbers as a starter, though he pretty much lost all of 2004 on the Sox roster as a Rule 5 player. He was great in 15 innings of short relief last Septembe and has had a real good spring.

2006-03-20 10:04:14

25. Cliff Corcoran

21 YanksinMI, this just ain't your day. Ortiz is on the Nationals now.

As for Zacks's concerns 22, the Sawks didn't have a single righty outfielder to platoon with Trot (who desperately needs it) prior to this trade. So they get a 24-year-old kid with good defensive skills who will feast on the Monster in exchange for a pitcher who didn't fit on their staff and you don't get it? PECOTA puts him in the neighborhood of .280/.340/.550 with a 90th percentile of .319/.383/.664, those are better projections than what it gives Nixon, who only beats out those OBPs by a smidge.

The keys are 1) the Sox needed to fill this role 2) Wily Mo's still just a kid 3) this kid can rake

2006-03-20 10:05:37

26. Cliff Corcoran

Oops, meant to delete that bit about Pena's defense in 25. He may have an arm, but that's about it.

2006-03-20 10:07:07

27. Cliff Corcoran

Oh right, I forgot the Sox had signed Juan Gonzalez to a minor league deal. That was what it had come to for them.

2006-03-20 10:07:08

28. debris

Cliff,

I assume those PECOTA numbers are vs. LHP only?

2006-03-20 10:38:25

29. Cliff Corcoran

Nope. Overall.

2006-03-20 10:43:59

30. Rob Gee

Good times! Anyone still want to defend CASH-man?

Compare:
The Sox have a hole in RF next year - Theo gets the job d-u-n.

We had a hole in CF for three years -
We get Damon after Lofton, back to Bernie, to Woemack, to Reese, back to Bernie, to Bubba. Hope we enjoyed him leading off as a DH yesterday - it's his spot for the next four years. And anyone notice who started in CF yesterday? You win if you said - GOB!

2006-03-20 10:55:59

31. sabernar

Pena is a butcher in the OF (and DH is already taken). Take a look at Pena's career road/home splits. He was WAY better at home then on the road, where he was barely average, if that. I don't see this as being much of anything for the Sox. Sure, there is the possibility that he plays like the stud that the Sox fans hope he will, but there's also a possibility that Pavano will win 20 games for us this year.

2006-03-20 11:03:19

32. Zack

Cliff, while I usually put heavy weight on projections, I just don't see where PECOTA could get those lines. He has shown nothing in his career, major or minors (he did have that absurd contract that demanded he be in the majors and not fully develop) that indicates he can hit for average...He averaged .256 in the minors. And I suppose the increased OBP would come purely from the increased average, since he simply doesn't walk...

While I agree hes a kid, I don't see anything to indicate that he is a Soriano clone that doesn't hit as well, but maybe hits the ball farther.

He does fill a need, but this combined with the however dubious Soriano to Boston trade rumors awhile go just have me scratching my head about their direction. I feel that the benefit of playing in Fenway should be mitigated by facing far better pitching, and left field of Fenway is not a kind place for a poor fielder...

Mr. Gee, as for your revival of hatred towards poor Brian, answer me why we would trade for Pena? And with whom? We have a lf who I would take any day over Pena, and will have him most likely next year, and by that time, we shall see what happens. But we have no need for a lf or rf at the moment, and as for cf, well, we aren't getting into that again...

2006-03-20 11:05:44

33. bp1

The reaction to this trade is so bizarre.

When the Sox get the guy - it's all upside. Strong arm. Home runs. Youth. If the Yankees somehow got the same guy - the exact same guy - all anyone would talk about are his low obp and strike out rate.

Someone please tell me the Yankees are not weak in the knees with fear of a career .250 hitting platooned right fielder.

2006-03-20 11:05:46

34. Count Zero

12 And now the rotation is Bloodysock, Beckett, Wells, Wakefield, and Clement and the kids Papelbon, Delcameron and Lester ready in reserve.

As others have already pointed out, why is it that the grass is always greener over in Fenway? You guys are talking like this is a great rotation! It has the same problems as the Yanks' rotation only worse:

Schilling: coming back off injury...can he still bring it? unclear...is he healthy? also unclear...Sox ace is a much bigger "?" than RJ at this point

Clement: joking right? he got lit up even more than Jaret in the second half of last season

Beckett: great upside potential...of course, other than one WS he has yet to show any consistency even in the ERA-low senior circuit....a potential ace, more likely to be a #3 or #4 starter in expectation-heavy, AL East facing AL lineups all year

Wells: could have another good year left in him...or he could be a backache away from retirement...once again, a big "?"...a wash with Pavano

Wakefield: the most dependable one of the bunch...a solid #3 starter

I'm quaking in my boots...if everything goes 100% right for the Sox, they might have a real good starting rotation. Then again, if everything goes 100% right for the Yanks, we have a solid #3 starter as our #5, a guy who went 10-0 last year in long relief, and the best closer in baseball. That "potential" and $3.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

2006-03-20 11:12:32

35. debris

Zack,

I must agree. Despite his age, I don't see those PECOTA numbers overall. And the numbers should be even higher against RHP only. His splits are enormous.

What makes this an even better trade is all the left-handed starting pitching in the division: Lilly, Chacin, Chen, Bedard, Unit, Fossum, and Kazmir.

It will be interesting to see how much he learns from the other two large Dominicans in the lineup.

2006-03-20 11:23:13

36. Rob Gee

32 Zack - I didn't say any thing about trading for said. I just compared the two ways of doing things for Cash and Theo. One is about average in GM class, the other is well-above average. One transforms holes, the other just plugs them.

34 Whoa, whoa, whoa - I'm not quaking in anything. We've got a solid starting team with a terrible bench. Middle relief is a big question mark. BUT, that bench is going to lose us some games, and the bullpen might. The closer the race gets, the more those things become important.

Right now, do you want:

a) Scott Erickson losing a game for us in April?

b) Bernie playing anywhere in the field?

c) Kelly Stinnett starting?

d) Runners taking 2B on Damon's arm?

See, all of these things are now slated to happen, and very early in the season. These are the choices CASH-man has made, and they will cost us games. Hopefully not too many.

And of course Torre will be culpable too (Myers pitching to lefties, Bernie in CF/RF).

The Sox may be looking better - but I'm not scared yet. But w