Baseball Toaster: Bronx Banter : Chuck and Duck

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Key:
BR = Baseball-Reference
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Chuck and Duck

2005-04-22 12:13

by Alex Belth

Friday night pits Chris Young (1-1, 7.62 ERA) vs. Kevin "Don't Bring Me" Brown (0-1, 9.00) at the stadium. Could be a wild one. Then again, watch it be a pitcher's duel...what are the odds? Hmmm.

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Comments

2005-04-22 13:52:59

1. Nick from Washington Heights

fearless prediction: K-Brown begins his turn-around tonight.

2005-04-22 14:20:33

2. Fred Vincy

I'm with you Nick. If the back's OK, and for the moment it seems to be, I think Brown can still throw....

2005-04-22 14:29:22

3. TomP

Hey, it's on network TV. I'm celebrating that I can actually watch the game. Woo hoo!

2005-04-22 15:44:17

4. Rosbif22

You know, I'm just gonna try to keep the faith about Brown:

He's back.

2005-04-22 16:37:18

5. JeremyM

Paging Wang. Brown is done. I was with you guys, I thought he'd have a good start.

2005-04-22 19:48:00

6. seamus

Andy Phillips can't hit it further than five feet! I swear its true. You'll never see anything further than five feet.

ok, just goofing. I was pretty psyched that he got an at bat in a key situation. It bodes well and I think the more chances the better he'll do.

2005-04-22 19:53:45

7. Simone

Kevin Brown makes me sick. His starts are automatic losses.

2005-04-22 20:05:47

8. redshift

They really need to get someone else in there instead of Brown. They have to realize that just because they are paying him so much doesn't mean they have to play him. He's more of a waste of money on the mound earning losses than he is on the bench letting someone else at least have a chance at a win.

2005-04-22 20:17:37

9. seamus

well, i would give brown one last start. The problem is that if he can right his ship he has the tools to be dominant. Of course he also has to stay healthy. We'd be better off with Wang most likely. And Brown is driving me nuts.

2005-04-22 20:42:44

10. Simone

Another thought, I felt bad for Weaver and for Vasquez who were young and struggling, but Brown breaking his hand and stinking up the joint ever since is simply intolerable. My stomach turns whenever he starts. Get thee to the freaking pen, Brown and stay there.

2005-04-22 21:12:52

11. markp

I won't ask anyone else to do so, but I think I'll give him more than two starts before I write him off.
In both of his starts he was awful in the first inning or two, but much better after that. I know that's a trait shared by many sinkerball pitchers, but he seems to have taken it to extremes. That Texas was able to score only one run after the first is good news. I would have liked to see Karsay out there instead of Quantrill, though.

2005-04-22 23:10:48

12. Adam B

I'd give Brown another chance or two because of how good he's been outside of the 1st inning. Lieber had the same problem in the beginning of last year and Sturtze did in his spot starts. So don't take his head off just yet.

Nice to see Stanton face 4 and strike them all out.

Nice to see Phillips get an actual at bat. Being up at school in Boston, I didn't get to see the at bat, but my dad said he had two nice swings on the first two strikes. Bizarre decision by Torre, though to not pinch hit for Giambi against a lefty, to pinch hit for Tino with Sanchez, to pinch hit for Flaherty with Phillips and then for Womack with Posada. I don't know about the rest of you, but doesn't that seem like the reverse of the desirable order to use them as pinch hitters?

2005-04-23 07:16:21

13. jayd

Brown is in the same place Curt Schilling is. Schilling has been out there 2 or 3 times, nothing really quality yet, but getting there. I wouldn't give up yet; but the real worry is that 2 or 3 more bad starts and you're sending him somewhere and paying his paycheck.

2005-04-23 07:19:05

14. Murray

Manager Joe should just let Snoopy pitch instead of Charlie Brown.

2005-04-23 08:09:54

15. markp

Ooops-I forgot to mention the Phillips sighting. One of my biggest hopes is that when Torre looks at him he thinks "Shane Spencer".

I really believe Brown will turn it around. He's made a lot of real good pitches from the 3rd inning on. Hopefully, with more work he'll make more good pitches before that.

2005-04-23 11:54:46

16. brockdc

It seems that Michael Kay's latent comtempt for Yankee fans is finally surfacing, as Wright leaves the game to a chorus of boos. They're not booing his injury, you idiot - they're booing the fact that he's Jaret Wright.

2005-04-23 11:56:10

17. brockdc

If and when they do call up Wang...

...do you think they'll play that Ted Nugent song over the stadium system whenver he's warming up or coming in from the pen?

2005-04-23 12:42:02

18. singledd

Is is the 8th inning and we are down 8 to 1.
3 of the 8 are unearned. We have all of 3 hits. I have not done the math, but it seems we are giving up a bunch of unearned runs. Our D is even worse then I thought.

We are 20 games into the season... which is now not brand new. While it is still April, this has been a VERY disturbing year.

You need to really look hard to find bright spots. Yeah, Jetes and Matsui are doing well. Sheff is OK. ARod is under-achieving, but not by too, too much. But all-in-all,
terrible pitching, both starting and relieving, basically horrible offense except for a few 'bust out' games, and flawed defense.

This is really bad. While it has to get better (how can it get worse), this does not look like a team that can beat the Sox or make the post season.

Getting RJ (will kill us in 2006 & 7) and Wright instead of kepping Lieber, Hernandez and getting Beltran, will haunt us for a decade.

I am trying not to be a bummer, but I can't help but feel I am reading the writing on the wall. Alex... Cliff..... help me. Be honest. Can his team really make the post season????

2005-04-23 12:49:51

19. JeremyM

This team will not make the playoffs. A-Rod is to MLB what Chris Webber is to the NBA. The signing of Wright is a disaster, which everyone could see coming. Same goes for Womack. The jury is out on Johnson, but I don't see it panning out over two more seasons. Halsey has looked very good in Arizona, which shows he might've been a nice LOOGY for the playoffs last season, but our manager has no creativity at all. Letting Lieber go was ridiculous. Passing on Beltran was just as dumb, if not dumber. Our quality players like Matsui, Sheffield, and Jeter will try to do too much. Tino is washed up, but will continue to get 4 at bats a game. Posada seems to be fading fast, I hope I'm wrong there. Giambi will be so-so, but not close to what he was. That's my two cents.

2005-04-23 13:01:49

20. markp

I hope when (not if) they win 95+ games, all of the people that are writing them off right now are honest enough to admit they were wrong. They're currently 2 games off the pace of a team that won 101 games a year ago.
I think the Arod = Webber comment is about as ignorant an anti-Arod remark as I've heard. All Arod did was move from a position he plays better than the guy who was there to be a Yankee and was probably the second most valuable player on the team (after Sheffield) both in the regualr season and the play-offs, but the press says he sucks so "Yankee fans" repeat it like a mantra.

2005-04-23 13:13:37

21. singledd

Re: Jayd in comparing Schilling to Brown
W L ERA G GS C SH S SV IP H R ER HR BB K
1 1 6.75 2 2 0 0 0 0 10.2 19 10 8 2 1 3 15
0 2 8.25 2 2 0 0 0 0 12.0 20 11 11 2 0 3 7

Aside that Schill is coming off an unusual injury, and that he was excellent last year (as Brown was terrible), Schills Ks are more then twice as good and his ERA is 1.5 better.
And this is Schill at his worst. I simply dont think there is comparison here to rationalize that Brown has something left.

Also, Schills last outing wasn't bad, there were 3 unearned (Manny) runs.

I dont think Brown is an 8 ERA. But I dont think he is 4 or under either.

It is now 10 to 2, 18 hits to 4, against a team with no pitching. Our run coming, of all things, from a Crosby ph (for Sheff).
I think this is the year I start drinking heavily.

2005-04-23 13:20:50

22. JeremyM

I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong. I would be beyond thrilled to admit it. The Webber comparison is not exact of course, but I think there are some similarities. Webber puts up nice stats but is unable to carry a team whatsoever. When things are going well, A-Rod seems to be in the middle of things, but when the team is cold and needs someone to step up, he's always there to strike out or strand a couple baserunners.

The comment regarding last season makes me feel a little better about things, but last year our problem seemed to be offense for the most part, and we knew (or felt very strongly) that would turn around. This year it's pitching. I don't know that a turnaround is on the horizon, when we have Wright hurt already and Brown pitching like crap, a lot of guys with MPHs disappearing from their fastballs, and a bullpen that is very shaky.

2005-04-23 14:59:25

23. markp

Brown was NOT horrible last year. His 4.09 ERA was the best on the team for pitchers with 20 starts or more. (Actually, the only starter with a better ERA was Duque, and he only had 15 starts.)

2005-04-23 17:44:14

24. brockdc

This Yankees team will win its share of games this year, albeit of the 9-7 variety. They can plausibly win 90-95 games with this strategy, though that still may not be enough to make the playoffs.

At this point, the problems are many - as have been itemized ad infinitum within this blog. My greatest fear right now, however, is Joe Torre's stubborn allegiance to his veterans and the possibility that the Yankees will smack the panic button come July. Pulling a Phillips/Bean/Cano for Clemens trade, to me, would be disastrous and would epitomize the short-sightedness that this organization has come to embrace.

By the way - that A-Rod/Webber comparison was apt. Neither player has - thus far in their respective careers - displayed the requisite mental toughness to thrive in pressure-packed situations. Period.

2005-04-23 18:50:21

25. Marcus

While the A-Rod-Webber analogy is true in that respect, A-Rod is a more talented player for his sport than Webber. Webber just doesn't have the power to muscle his way inside like a big man should. Nor has he ever been that great of a defensive stopper. A-Rod has all the talent to dominate both offensively and defensively, yet becomes average under pressure. That, in my opinion, makes A-Rod more of a failure than Webber.

Of course I'll retract all this when A-Rod picks up his game and lifts the Yankees single-handedly into the playoffs (Right A-Rod? Right???).

2005-04-23 20:41:53

26. markp

Alex Rodriguez has played in 7 postseason series in his career. His record:
Games-26, AB-103, runs-17, hits-34, 2b-8, HR-6, RBI-16, BA-.330, OBP-.395, SLG-.583
vs. Boston in the ALCS he had BA-258, OBP-.378, SLG-.516 after a BA-.421, OBP-.476, and SLG-.737 vs. the Twins.
By way of comparison, Derek Jeter has the following numbers in post-season play:
BA-.306, OBP-380, SLG-.456. In the Boston series everyone wants to blame on Arod, Derek the captain had BA-.200, OBP-.333, SLG-.233. How the hell is it Arod's fault we lost to Boston when Jeter's OPS was 328 points lower? Because the newspapers and the TV guys keep telling you Arod's a loser, and you keep believing it.
As for the rest of the 96-2000 "winners."
Bernie Williams postseason numbers:
BA-.280, OBP-.378, SLG-.490
Paul "we'd be winning more if he was still here" O'Niel:
BA-.284, OBP-.363, SLG-.465
Scott "clutch in the postseason" Brosius:
BA-.245, OBP-.278, SLG-.418
Tino "we need more guys like this in postseason" Martinez
BA-.239, OBP-.326, SLG-.359
Saying Arod doesn't do well in post-season is ludicrous. He's done far better than any of the guys continuously held up as "the reasons" NYY won from 96-2000. He's elevated his already brilliant play in every postseason series he's ever been in, including last year.
He's played better than half the regulars and all of the pitching staff so far this year in the field, on the bases, and at the plate. He was as valuable as anyone on the team with the possible exception of Gary Sheffield in 2004.
He works as hard on his game as any Yankee ever did. But it never matters. It's never enough. And just like the most recent gymrats that Yankees imported that the media convinced us to hate (Clemens or Giambi), it's never about how privileged we are to watch this once in a lifetime player. It's repeating the uninformed writings of the Mike Lupicas of the world like a mantra.
Like us looking back at Mantle and then Maris and how they were villified and booed in Yankee stadium, people looking back 30 years from now won't believe the stuff being written and said about Arod could possibly have happened. But I saw it in the 50's with The Mick and the 60's with Maris. History tends to repeat itself-especially with the creeps writing on the sports pages and doing the Terrel Owens/Alan Iverson lovefests on SPortscenter.

2005-04-24 20:01:15

27. jayd

markp
That was an excellent post.

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