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Movin and Shakin
2008-07-31 09:49
by Alex Belth

Couple of new guns will be at Stadium tonight--the Angels have a new first baseman, the Yanks have a new catcher.  Be interesting to see how that impacts the Halos Annual Bomber Beatdown.  In the meantime, this afternoon is about the trade deadline.

So?  Will Manny Ramirez still be a Red Sox come this evening?

Comments (143)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-07-31 10:02:02
1.   Zack
I would be really bummed if the Sox managed to get Kemp out of all of this. Torre does love himself the veterans and a young, cheap Kemp under Sox control for the next however many years would be painful.
2008-07-31 10:19:15
2.   mehmattski
FanGraphs has evidence that flipping Hermida for Ramirez actually makes the Marlins worse:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-manny-hermida-deal/

2008-07-31 10:26:40
3.   alittleblackegg
Peter Gammons on ESPN's trade blog: the deal may be "dead" and the Fish might be asking for Manny + prospects + cash, which seems nuts.

If nothing happens, it'll be weird atmosphere in Boston for awhile.

2008-07-31 10:27:41
4.   cult of basebaal
according to robothal, the yankees are considering paul byrd:

The Yankees, frustrated by their attempts to land Mariners left-hander Jarrod Washburn, are "kicking around" the idea of adding Indians righty Paul Byrd, according to major-league sources.

As of 12:30 p.m. ET, the Yankees and Indians had not yet exchanged names, but a deal could come together quickly if the Yankees decided to pursue it.

The Indians likely would not seek much in return from Byrd, who also has drawn mild interest from the Rockies. For the Yankees, Byrd would be a potential upgrade over right-hander Darrell Rasner.

i don't care what it costs, i'm not really interested in paul byrd. well, i suppose if he's replacing snacks pontoon, but even that just seems like an exchange of advanced mediocrity ... pass.

2008-07-31 10:27:51
5.   rbj
Ah, the good ole' Boston Zoo.
2008-07-31 10:32:37
6.   rbj
4 Will the last person out of Cleveland please turn off the lights.

I would prefer Byrd to Ponson, but then again I'd prefer just about anyone or their grandmother to Ponson.

2008-07-31 10:32:56
7.   mehmattski
4 Hey, the Indians have Jeff Weaver too. I saw him pitch last night against the Durham Bulls. He gave up four runs (including three solo homers) in six innings and got the win...
2008-07-31 10:34:08
8.   RIYank
Gammons: "Close to dead"
Rosenthal: "Taking off"

Who do you believe?

2008-07-31 10:40:51
9.   cult of basebaal
8 anyone but will carroll.
2008-07-31 10:44:53
10.   cult of basebaal
SWEET!

The Make A Wish Kid, rides again!!!

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2008/07/trade_confident_1.html

2008-07-31 10:47:48
11.   Yankee Fan in Chicago
8 the thing to remember about Gammons is that he's the mouthpiece for the Sawx front office. Especially at trade deadline time, when he kicks into overdrive, trying to ensure that the Sawx get the best deal and any competing teams get the shaft.

Sounds to me then as if the Sawx feel they have the Marlins/Pirates hooked, and are trying to get more by making them think they're ready to walk away from the table.

2008-07-31 10:55:56
12.   standuptriple
11 It makes me sad that Gammons is a constant "Schill" for the Boston front office. It makes me sadder that very few people see that through his lofty stature.
2008-07-31 10:58:02
13.   ms october
{1] me too on kemp. i am holding out hope the yanks can get him in the off season.

4 if they want to "kick around" paul byrd that's fine - but it is cruely to animals.
if the upgrade over ponson is only to mediocre (such as byrd) - what's the point?
just give kennedy another shot or aceves in a week or so when he gets his pitch count up a bit.

10 wishes do come true!

just about 2 hours until we know about manny!

2008-07-31 11:02:16
14.   jafuchs78
www.theblogofchampions.com
2008-07-31 11:09:42
15.   mehmattski
Rosenthal says the trade is dead too, now.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8398506

2008-07-31 11:11:04
16.   Zack
14 Are you just advertising your blog without actually adding anything?
2008-07-31 11:13:44
17.   pistolpete
Anyone else listening to Davidoff of Newsday on XM? He's basically trashing the Pudge deal.

Apparently Farnsworth was the key to the entire bullpen. He had the best 'raw stuff'...

:P

2008-07-31 11:16:20
18.   cult of basebaal
17 yeah, i read his piece in newsday today, somebody linked to it over at BBTF with the tagline, "anybody wanna read a really stupid take on this trade?" ... he's a fuckwit
2008-07-31 11:18:08
19.   williamnyy23
18 Some writers just take a contrarian opinion to stand out.

Gammons looks depressed that the Red Sox wont be able to trade Manny.

2008-07-31 11:19:15
20.   mehmattski
17 If there's one thing I've learned from the print media this season:

The eighth inning is the most important inning of a baseball game.

2008-07-31 11:19:29
21.   pistolpete
I can literally feel my blood pressure rise every time he says the Yankees "won't be able to replace Kyle Farnsworth"...

Does anyone know if maybe Ken thought Kyle wore #42 and runs in from the bullpen to 'Enter Sandman'...?

2008-07-31 11:20:14
22.   ms october
15 and now the jason bay to the rays rumors are back (or at least to jayson stark)
http://tinyurl.com/6mcb8v
btw - can espn not afford to put times on their posts?
2008-07-31 11:21:23
23.   Raf
10 He's only there holding a roster spot fro Bruney.
2008-07-31 11:21:50
24.   Zack
RLYW has a post up that basically confirms my suspicions. Bay and Manny would basically be a wash in terms of value for the rest of the season and going forward Bay is probably more valuable
2008-07-31 11:22:14
25.   Raf
23 Holding a spot for Bruney too...
2008-07-31 11:22:32
26.   pistolpete
22 ESPN really needs some sort of 'trade rumor' blog with minute-by-minute updates. I'd read it (see: refresh every 2 minutes). :)
2008-07-31 11:23:18
27.   mehmattski
26 mlbtraderumors.com isn't enough for you?
2008-07-31 11:23:18
28.   Just fair
10 What IF Melancon spends all of August sporting oustanding numbers in SWB? I would appreciate the organization being mindful of his post-TJ arm, but if he can help the big club..
We'll see.
2008-07-31 11:26:53
29.   Shaun P
24 Our bandwagon grows: first Hoss, now SG!
2008-07-31 11:27:16
30.   Zack
28 What is so crazy is that the Yankees really CAN leave him in AAA for the rest of the year and not feel the need to rush him. Their BP is darn good, and has some darn good replacements waiting in the wings in Bruney/Britton, Strickland (well, he has been good this year), Kennedy/Hughes if needed, and Cox/Melancon. Really, both Cox and Melancon should finish in AAA and be in the mix of an already crowded BP in ST. It will be a fun offseason that for the first time in a long time doesn't focus on FA relievers...
2008-07-31 11:27:57
31.   pistolpete
27 I check the RSS feed from there in a newsreader, yes, but since a lot of the guys breaking the news work for ESPN, I'd rather skip the middleman.

They do have something for the "Insiders", don't they?

2008-07-31 11:28:49
32.   Zack
29 His main point is excellent: you have to look at Manny now and going forward and not what he has done in the past. Shaun, we can continue the good fight as long as need be!

At least people seem to be more on board with recognizing the horror of the Sox trading for Kemp

2008-07-31 11:32:19
33.   cult of basebaal
here's something worth thinking about from jonah keri over in the ESPN chat:

Since all the Ramirez talk started, I've had two theories on why the Red Sox are floating his name out there and heating up the trade talks:

1) To placate the Boston media and leave Manny swinging in the wind.

2) To c***block the Rays from getting Jason Bay.

Think about it. The Rays' biggest weakness is their offense, and they're specifically after a RH bat. With Holliday likely staying in Col, Bay is BY FAR the best option out there. So what do the Red Sox do? Engage the Pirates in three-way trade talk right up to the 4 pm trade deadline, keeping them occupied and making it nearly impossible for the Rays to (even try to) get Bay.

Meanwhile Reds owner Bob Castellini is so wedded to Adam Dunn that the Rays may not get him either.

Presto! The Red Sox have successfully prevented the 1st place team in the AL East from addressing their biggest need.

2008-07-31 11:33:53
34.   cult of basebaal
32 so there's the other side of the coin ... which destination is worse? bay to the rays (has a nice ring, no?) or bay with the sox?
2008-07-31 11:34:21
35.   mehmattski
31 Their site is so confusing... there's a bunch of links to a "deadline blog" but when I click it, all that comes up is one story about the Angels. I can't find a link that includes multiple stories.
2008-07-31 11:34:32
36.   williamnyy23
24 It's a very credible analysis, but I don't think it accounts for the difference in leagues. It also, doesn't seem to take into account that the NL has more of an offensive environment this year.
2008-07-31 11:36:08
37.   mehmattski
35 Never mind, I just had to be patient and wait for the whole site to load:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=mlb_trade_deadline

33 As much as I hate it being within the division, it would make me happy to see Bay go to the Rays, just to spite the Sox. I think the Yankees can overtake the Sox, and to see them out of the playoffs in favor of the Rays would be delightful.

2008-07-31 11:37:00
38.   Sliced Bread
let's go, Omar!
at the buzzer.. bring on the Manny to Mets surprise!
2008-07-31 11:37:11
39.   Just fair
33 Love them conpiracy theories. Get Scully and Mulder on the phone. : ) In reality, it does makes sense.
2008-07-31 11:37:56
40.   williamnyy23
I just hope Manny doesn't stay with the Red Sox and go on a salary drive because that would be the best case scenario for Boston.

I'd also rather see Bay go to Boston because he is a wash with Manny at best, but it prevents TB from improving.

2008-07-31 11:38:12
41.   RIYank
33 Yeah, that's plausible.

I still think Theo would like to make this deal. But if he can't, your considerations are a happy side effect.

2008-07-31 11:38:24
42.   mehmattski
I think this trading season has brought up a new question for the Bronx Banter: who will Mattpat11 hate now that Farnsworth, Hawkins, and Ohlendorf are gone???
2008-07-31 11:40:08
43.   Zack
36 SG does address the league issue down in the comments, as well as the park factors (Bay going from a pitchers park to a hitters). Basically, after all that is factored in, the analysis is the same.

33 37 Ditto. I mean, really I don't want Bay to go anywhere but the Yanks, but it would bother me a lot less if he went to the Rays. And lets be honest, the Rays really SHOULD be able to land him, they have the prospects galore and he would help them a lot. Not trading for Bay is pretty inexcusable, and this is about as good a position they can expect to be in in terms of standings, strength of the other teams etc.

2008-07-31 11:42:07
44.   vockins
33 Are the Pirates so dysfunctional that they can't take two phone calls at once?
2008-07-31 11:42:24
45.   Just fair
43 Who's to say he won't be a guest poster on the Detroit Tigers Weblog?
2008-07-31 11:42:38
46.   Zack
The latest rumor has the Dodgers offering Andre Ethier for Manny. Obviously this would be far better than Kemp, though I don't know nearly as much about Ethier
2008-07-31 11:43:00
47.   RIYank
42 Hm, yeah. Do we have any particularly hateable prospects?
Britton is the best bet, but too cheap to be properly despised.

Yeah, this is going to be a real problem.

2008-07-31 11:44:29
48.   Just fair
D'oh. 45 was meant for 42
2008-07-31 11:44:45
49.   ms october
42 47 bruney might come back up.

44 the bartender from the bada bing answers their phones now.

2008-07-31 11:45:20
50.   Zack
47 There's always Melky I suppose (ducks and covers)! I think Pudge is pretty hateable, except that he is obviously so much better than Molina.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-07-31 11:45:30
51.   RIYank
Zack, the thing is, if he goes to the Rays then we have Manny and Bay to contend with in the division. If he goes to Boston, we have Bay but not Manny. (William has been pointing this out, and I don't think it's sufficiently appreciated.)
2008-07-31 11:46:32
52.   RIYank
Sorry -- 51 was about 43 .
2008-07-31 11:46:43
53.   cult of basebaal
46 he's not enough to get the sox to do it, the dodgers would have to up the offer.
2008-07-31 11:51:38
54.   Zack
51 This is true, and I know some of it is purely distaste for the "best run organization in baseball," but I honestly see Manny staying with the Sox as the worse outcome for them. Sure, he will continue to produce for them, but he'll still be a distraction and its not like the Sox don't have other pretty big problems. Meanwhile, I think Bay or no Bay, the Rays will fade. As is, the Yanks are one game behind the Wild Card leading Sox.

But really, as I said, I would prefer Bay either not move or go to the Yanks. In the end, I don't think he's a difference maker no matter where he goes...

2008-07-31 11:52:03
55.   RIYank
53 I dunno. The Sox front office might be getting desperate.
2008-07-31 11:52:12
56.   Just fair
If Manny's being Manny in Dolphin Stadium and no one's there to see it, does anyone give a shit?
2008-07-31 11:52:42
57.   JL25and3
42 There's still Sir Sidney, at least for another hour.
2008-07-31 11:53:10
58.   RIYank
54 Ah, good point. I wasn't thinking about that aspect, I agree. With Manny on the Sox, we do have to contend with his bat, but the Sox have to contend with everything else.
2008-07-31 11:54:27
59.   JL25and3
Btw, I'm glad the Yankees got to play Seattle before they traded Arthur Rhodes.
2008-07-31 11:59:49
60.   Vandelay Industries
56 That's why I am surprised the Dodgers aren't really in this mix for Manny. It is the perfect place for him this season and going forward. This year he could help them take the division, and going forward, no one here really cares if the players take the field or not, play hard or not, or run down the line. Its perfect.
2008-07-31 12:00:32
61.   RIYank
Folks are really nervous over at Dodger Thoughts. They're counting down to the deadline. If Kemp is traded for Manny, they're going to be some unhappy campers.
2008-07-31 12:02:24
62.   Vandelay Industries
61 They'd be the only ones who care. The other 2,999,000 folks that show up in The Land of Lethargic Fans won't even notice the difference.
2008-07-31 12:11:55
63.   Mattpat11
The idea of Jason Bay in my division really doesn't scare me as much as it seems to scare everyone else. No one here is cowering at the thought of JD Drew, and I don't see how Bay is so much better than Drew.
2008-07-31 12:13:13
64.   pistolpete
OT here, but does anyone know what the name of the service is that takes your old game tickets and blows them up to something like 4 feet wide for the purpose of hanging them on your wall...?

I saw it in the Yankees clubhouse store and was interested but I forgot the info as soon as I got home...

Reason I ask is because I finally found out from my mom the first game I'd ever gone to, and I'd like to perhaps print out the ticket from that particular game..

2008-07-31 12:17:26
65.   RIYank
mlbtraderumors:

MLB.com's Bill Chastain with the scoop - the Rays have acquired Jason Bay for Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann. The Rays haven't confirmed it yet though. I wonder if Bay would DH for the Rays.

2008-07-31 12:18:32
66.   cult of basebaal
Will Carroll (12:15:23 PM PT): Still confirming, but looks like Jason Bay to Tampa for Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann.
~~~~~~~~~~
of course, it's will carroll, so it's likely nothing, but ...
2008-07-31 12:20:48
67.   RIYank
But that's two sources. Sounds like it's the real deal.
Damn. Good for TB, but damn.
2008-07-31 12:21:10
68.   cult of basebaal
67 goldstein is reporting it too.
2008-07-31 12:21:54
69.   Mattpat11
66 If nothing else, the Yankees can hit the ball in the general direction of Bay every time he comes to the ballpark.
2008-07-31 12:24:38
70.   The Mick 536
Live in Vermont. Watching NESN. They don't know what to say at 3:22. Surprisingly, they have become journalists instead of the homers they usually be. If the Bay to Marlins is legit, Manny isn't going to the fish unless they send Leister with him and pay Manny's salary.

What a jerk that guy is.

2008-07-31 12:24:39
71.   cult of basebaal
69 yay! mattpatt is here. he can give us the real answer to 42
2008-07-31 12:25:13
72.   Mattpat11
66 If nothing else, the Yankees can hit the ball in the general direction of Bay every time he comes to the ballpark.
2008-07-31 12:25:43