The Joe Cuba 45 is a little warbly-sounding, still, it reminds me of Amerstam Avenue back in the day. Fits right in up on Dyckman, at least with the old-timers, where Heckle and Jeckle (Cano and Melk) often hang, doing their thing, chasing skirts, being ballplayers, etc.

Not sure which is the game thread, but here is the update on Jorgie, via PeteAbe:

JORGE POSADA UPDATE, 11:26 a.m.

Jorge Posada stepped up with the information. The MRI showed that his labrum is worse and that he has capsule damage. He will need surgery and a six-month rehab. However … he will try rehabbing for the next two weeks and consider trying to return as a DH and first baseman.

Posada said the Yankees are willing to have him play again this season even if it means missing part of next season. But if he comes back this season, he won't catch.

"Catching is out of the question," he said.

It seems curious to me that they would not want Posada ready to start next season, especially given how ineffective he was as a hitter. Obviously the injury has hampered his ability at the plate. But we'll see what happens in a few weeks.

End Quote

So what the hell is he doing trying to rehab? That way we can have another so so hitting DH? Jorgie, please just get the surgery, you can't help this team right now.

Game thread still to come...

2 I think it tells us that the Yankees are serious about making the PS this year. Even if we, and Posada, play in October, 6 months out is May 1. So Posada might miss 2 months of 2009 if he has surgery immediately after the PS. If we don't make the PS, hopefully he misses very little of 2009.

Might it also mean that it's very hard for Cashman to find another bat for this year? Any bat can DH and any available bat will be a DH, 1B or OF.

So now, getting 'Harry Honds' also mean getting Posada an extra 2 months of recovery time. I'll bet in 3 weeks, Bonds would be more productive (as a DH) then Posada will be.

I sincerely hope that that is misinformation given to the media in order to try to fool other teams into thinking the Yanks don't need a bat as badly as they really do.

If the dealine comes and goes and Posada's surgery is still being delayed, I'm gonna be mighty pissed off.

Heh. Deadline... but dealine kinda works.

4 Well, its stupid. He's admitted that the shoulder has bothered him when swinging the bat. He's shown no power at all since coming off the DL. At best, he'd be a popless DH, there's just no point at all. He can't help this year, and we need him for next. Get the surgery.

yo, thanks fer that Joe Cuba joint, Alex.
boppin' in the cuba-cle, as we speak.

5 I really hope you're right, that's a great point.

Seriously... mess with the healthy of your 36-year old all-star catcher you just signed to a 4-year deal so you can (maybe) get some (potentially injury-reduced) plate appearances from him as a DH or 1B (replacing PAs by Giambi, Betemit and/or Sexson?)...

... instead of signing HE WHO SHALL NOT BE SIGNED.

This is nuts.

The timing is perfect for the announcement to be a negotiating (with other teams) move. And a two week delay in surgery will be unimportant. If they delay into September, that would be bad.

5 I think a competing GM has more reliable and credible sources than the local media outlets.

it's only two weeks, fellas!
What if Po can swing in two weeks? that's not worth waiting to see?

2 4 agreed oyf. i think it is about the rh bat as well. i read somewhere - and i apologize that i forgot where so don't have a link - that it is his lh hitting that is more affected by the injury - so he could still hit rh.
i would love a good young (preferably corner of) rh bat as much as the next person and have been advocating for it all year - but i think girardi and cashman are overdoing it with this rh bat thing. if all posada can do is dh or play 1b - that probably means time taken away from giambi, which is largely a mistake (he does need to get rest every so often) - giambi's splits really aren't that big an issue, but maybe they are just zeroing in on the 235 ave against lhp
rhp: 265/399/541 sOPS+ 144 tOPS+ 101
lhp: 235/398/518 sOPS+ 166 tOPS+ 97

13 (I'm repeating myself from the other thread, since you already did =)

Posada already took SIX weeks off to rest his shoulder. The result?

.248/.380/.371, 2 HR in 105 AB

and most of that came the first two weeks back, against awful competition (KC, SD, HOU). He's hit .205/.314/.288, 0 HR since 6/20/08.

I just fail to see how two more weeks of rest is going to do anything.

12 Yeah, I know. Which is why I hope, but don't believe.

13 My main concern is that Po could make things worse by rehabbing/playing instead of getting the surgery. Plus, I think the upside of the risk is low, because he hasn't really hit since coming back the last time - it seems to be affecting his swing. So you get a meh DH/1B option at the possible cost of more serious injury to your awesome starting catcher.

No deal.

16 Yes, agreed fully (I'm starting to repeat myself via the two threads). That line that 15 posted is a below average DH, actually well below aside from the OBP. In addition, if he does come back you now have Giambi, Posada, Sexson, and to a lesser extent Betemit and Damon all competing for DH and/or 1B time. That's a damn unflexible bench right there.

15 yeah, let's stop ping ponging threads and keep the Po banter here!

16 I agree he shouldn't throw. 1b is a bad idea. Best case, he's a pinch hitter. Let's wait and see if best case is an option is all I'm saying.

1 Great side... Makes me want to run out and open a fire hydrant :).

18 I have abandoned the last thread and moved here full-time!

Posada as pinch hitter, career:

.223/.339/.330, 124 PA

I have no idea when those appearances have come.

Posada as a DH, career:

.205/.320/.337, 197 PA

I am not as hopeful as you, o' Sunny Sliced. Even with the usual caveats (maybe he only DHs when he's hurting? DOH!) these numbers inspire no hope for me.

20 Fine me too:

So we're hoping he can PH and occasionally DH? How many ABs is that for the rest of the season? You wouldn't play him over Giambi or Damon in that spot the way he's hitting. So we're talking a few platoon DH starts and some PH. Without running the numbers I'm willing to bet that adds up to less than a single win over the rest of the season. Now factor in that any delay adds on to any time he might miss next season. It just doesn't add up to me. If they can't find a guy who can PH at that level I'd be shocked.

From the previous thread:

37 . Shaun P
32 Posada as pinch hitter, career:

.223/.339/.330, 124 PA

I have no idea when those appearances have come.

Posada as a DH, career:

.205/.320/.337, 197 PA

I am not as hopeful as you, o' Sunny Sliced.

Good stats, Shaun, but they're from a time when Posada was a starting catcher. Maybe he wasn't successful because he wasn't comfortable in the PH/DH role. In fact, we know he never liked not catching.
Maybe, again BIG IF Posada wants to be a pinch hitter, and his body allows him to do it he'll have more success in the role.

I know it's a longshot, but look at the bottom of the order. If Posada can swing a bat he's not a better option at the plate in a late inning situation?

Let's see. Sparing him the knife right now is not such a terrible thing as I see it.

5 Don't other GMs have access to ESPN team batting stats?

The lineups:
Span, RF
Casilla, 2B
Redmond, C
Morneau, DH
Young, LF
Lamb, 1B
Harris, 3B
Punto, SS
Gomez, CF
(Perkins, P)

Damon, DH
Jeter, SS
Abreu, RF
Rodriguez, 3B
Sexson, 1B
Cano, 2B
Cabrera, CF
Molina, C
Christian, LF
(Mussina, P)

Giambi, batting .235/.398/.518 against lefties, is benched. Justin Christian makes his first start in two weeks.

On the other side, the Twins continue to bat the catcher 3rd, regardless of who the catcher is.

23 All but Bavasi.

22 That's an awful lot of ifs. IF the rest helps, and IF the rest doesn't go too long, and IF he can get used to PH/DH with a very little bit of time left in the season.

My fear is with the others: Posada, by trying to hit, makes the shoulder worse. Which makes the recovery period longer - which maybe knocks him out for all of 2009. Which means 2009 includes the "Jose Molina, full time starter!" show EVERY DAY. Which means that, the earliest Posada could maybe become the quasi-regular catcher again is 2010, at 38. Which will never happen.

The downside of my whiches >>> the upside of your ifs. =)

23 As long as Ed Wade and Jim Bowden are around, there is still hope. Not that either of them has anything of value to deal . . . no way the Astros would give up Berkman, not even for 6 relievers.

Ed Wade loves him some relievers, after all.

I shouldn't knock Ed Wade. After all, he was kind enough to sign Tom Gordon, netting the Yanks the picks that turned into IPK and Joba - and he traded Abreu to the Yanks in exchange for pocket lint. We owe him a great deal of gratitude.

Wasn't this supposed to be a "transition" year? That sure, you try to win this year, but not at the expense of next year?

It seems to me that that should apply to the veterans as well as the kids. Losing Posada for the first two months of next season seems to me like a very big deal. And considering how low the upside is - a few PH at-bats - I can't see any justification.

21 yeah, maybe it doesn't add up, and maybe Posada can't hit at all, but the Yanks have invested a lot in that bat this season, and runs have been hard to come by (not so much this week).
Regardless of his previous struggles as a PH/DH, and how many win-shares he might contribute down the stretch, if there's a chance that Posada's bat can still help this team, I'm all for waiting a few weeks to see.

26 the question of whether he should hit, or if it will exacerbate his injuries, I'll leave that to the doctors and trainers. If they say he can do further damage by swinging, surgery it is then, no questions asked.

sliced - i think one of my main objections is there is a good chance is this won't be two weeks - it will continue to drag on - while they see how his shoulder improves - and then he is not ready for next year.
so let's say he rehabs and they think he can give playing a shot - worst case scenario is posada will be hurt worse; ineffective is a poor scenario; and the best case is he hits great, but he is doing that as dh or 1bman, so he is taking abs away from someone (probably mostly giambi)who is his equivalent - and the yanks still have the same weaknesse in the lineup.

29 good points all around, but I don't think he should play 1b. Best case I think is PH.
He still might be able to produce in that role better than anybody else on the roster, but I wouldnt wait more than a few weeks to see if that's possible.

And Sexson better come up big today, to justify taking OBPStache out of the lineup.

what's the deal with the weather, this game gonna start on time?

32 from midtown I can see no reason why they won't start on time. It's not raining.

So which thread is the game thread?

A few things. In general, I 96.471% agree it's time to cut Po (with a knife, I mean). But in order to reach 100%, I need to know the following.
1) Forget 1st base. We have Jason, Sexy and Bittermint. At best, Po is a pure DH. NEVER throws a ball.
2) Will batting further injure his shoulder?
3) If JD is our LFer, who's our DH? Sexy is in against LHP, but what about the other 70% of the time. Betemit? Is he our best?

The bottom line is we should sign Bonds yesterday. We really should get a real OFer. But IF Po can swing without further damage, and if he can post a .800 OPS or better, I can see keeping him UNTIL we get another bat. We can NOT replace Po's bat inhouse and make the PS.

We need to stop with the Washburns and Vidros and get some talent. TB will slide. The have many more road games them home games. We should be able to get the WC. But if Po is out, we NEED TO GET ANOTHER BAT!

Versus Lefties, 2008:

Damon: 112 PA, .278/.369/.402
Giambi: 108 PA, .235/.398/.518

Why is the Stache sitting?

Jeebus, have the damn surgery already Jorge. It's easier to find a replacement level bat for the rest of this season than it is to find an all-star caliber switch hitting catcher to start next season.

2009 Free Agents: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/2009-mlb-free-a.html

If teams are going to lose these guys anyway, then to get them now vai trade, should NOT cost too much in terms of players. Is that a fair assumption. If so, WHY DON'T WE HAVE ONE YET? An OFer is both an immediate and future need. We have kids oin the farm to trade. This need is legitimate enough to let go of some kids.

My short list

Matt Hilliday (29) (2010)
Milton Bradley (31)
Jason Bay (29) (2010)
Adam Dunn (29)
Juan Rivera (30)
Brian Giles (38)
Vladimir Guerrero (33)

nice first frame by Moose.
It's a Good Moose Day.

38 Matt Hilliday (29) (2010) - won't hit out of Coors, they are asking the world for him because he's cheap next year

Milton Bradley (31) - I've got nothing here

Jason Bay (29) (2010) - they are asking the world him because he's cheap next year

Adam Dunn (29) - has limited no trade

Juan Rivera (30) - I'm not sure this is a solution

Brian Giles (38) - team option for next year that's certain to be exercised

Vladimir Guerrero (33) - uh, OYF, the Angels aren't about to trade their best hitter

38 Doesn't Vlad have a no-trade clause? And IIRC, I think he definitely does not want to play in NY.

24 Giambi, batting .235/.398/.518 against lefties, is benched. Justin Christian makes his first start in two weeks.

This is a somewhat misleading juxtaposition. Christian is starting because Gardner has sucked (and because it's a LHP). This has nothing to do with Giambi, and even if the Big 'Stache were in the lineup, Christian would still likely get the start in LF.

Frankly, the way Gardner is hitting, I don't see this as a bad move. Heck, Gardner may be most valuable now as a late inning PR.

On the other hand, Giambi is sitting primarily (it is assumed) because they are facing a LHP. If so, then this is indeed a silly decision.

40 more likely in 2009 they'll change their name to The Los Angeles Gurreros Of Anaheim.

Giambi is sitting to justify the acquisition of Richie Rich.

40 Bradley's going to be worth a ton on the free market, so maybe it would be worth seeing if he can be pried from the Rangers via trade... and boy do they need pitching.

Unfortunately, are we certain that in the next week the Rangers will decide they can't make the playoffs? They're 6.5 back in the wild card race.

Thanks, Dr. Waldman.

42 Christian is also starting because Damon has not been cleared to play in the field just yet. Which is why it's curious to choose one left-handed hitter over another, particularly in choosing the hitter who is worse against lefties...

36 Seems to me Girardi is resting Jason about 1 out if every 5 games. I don't think it has anything to do with his splits. So now when Jason rests, Sexy plays 1st instead of Betemit.

After all, who thought Jason would NOT be injured by he ASB, not to mention having an OPS of .900+. I can't fault Girardi for going easy on Giambi.

40 To add: Guerrero isn't going anywhere as a FA, the Angels have an option on him. Texas has cooled on trading Bradley; if he leaves as a FA, he'll definitely be a type A. Juan Rivera is getting playing time and the Angels like him. Bay probably isn't going anywhere. The Pads have said they're keeping Giles.

Dunn is the most likely, IMO, to be in pinstripes next year - unless the Yankees reach a deal with Abreu.

Giambi generally doesn't start day games after a night trim.

Read that however you wish.

Do we really want Dunn and all his K?

I would really hope we go in another direction

I'm tired of swings and misses.

40 i love folks (and i'm not picking on you shaun) who make statements like ... so and so's a home field mirage, he's never hit away from X park so he never will!

remember when soriano was traded from the rangers to the nats? remember how everyone (and i'm in the everyone here) thought that that was a terrible deal and that soriano wouldn't hit at all in washington?

how about when the mariners picked up ibanez? another case of a player with extreme home/away splits going to a much tougher hitting environment. another case of the existing splits not being meaningful at all.

home/away splits are just not thought of as being very predictive when assessing a players future performance anymore ...

51 I want Dunn and his ability to get on base and hit the ball a very long way. I never get tired of those things.

Moose walking off the mound like he doesn't have time for these bitches.

52 or, i should say, that using the away portion of home/away stats is not very predictive of the future total level of production.

54 He just wants his donuts.

40 So what.... there's nobody to be had? As more teams lock up quality players early, the number of impact FAs is shrinking and therefore the price is going up. We know what we will get from the farm in the next 2 years (position wise, AJax is about it). There are some positions we will have to go out-of-house for.

If teams are going to lose these guys anyway, isn't their choice:
1) Lose them and get a draft pick or 2
2) Trade them and get 3 or 4 Yankee farm hands.

Am I missing something? If Milton is going to cost a fortu