Baseball Toaster Bronx Banter
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Pass the Peas
2008-07-19 09:14
by Cliff Corcoran
Note: The Bronx Banter blog has moved to bronxbanterblog.com.

Having started things off right with their first-half ace last night, the Yankees give the ball to the man they hope will be their second-half ace this afternoon, Joba Chamberlain. As a full-fledgedstarter, Joba has a 2.57 ERA in 35 innings with 38 strikeouts and just 32 hits (only five of which have gone for extra bases as opponents are slugging .302 against him). His 4.11 BB/9 remains a small concern, but he didn't walk anyone in his last start, which saw him strike out nine in 6 2/3 innings (108 pitches). The Yankees are 4-2 in Joba's six full-length starts, but Joba is only 1-1, both the result of the fact that Chamberlain has received more than two runs of support just twice in those six outings.

Perhaps concerned about wasting a Justin Duchscherer start by pitching him against Chamberlain, the A's have moved their remaining ace to tomorrow's game and will instead start Sean Gallagher, the pitcher obtained from the Cubs in the Rich Harden deal. Like Joba, Gallagher is a 22-year-old righty who's built like a brick shithouse (both are 6'2" and roughly 230 pounds). Unlike Joba, Gallagher doesn't have overwhelming stuff. Still, there are a lot of things to like about Gallagher. He dominated the Angels in his first AL start (7 IP, 2 H, 2 R, 3 BB, 7 K). In 11 major league starts dating back to May 11 of this year, he has a 4.23 ERA and a 1.28 WHIP, solid numbers for a 22-year-old rookie starter. Even more impressive, he has allowed just five home runs in those 11 starts and none in his four starts at Wrigley Field. Opponents are hitting just .235/.314/.385 against him and he doesn't show much in the way of a platoon split. Perhaps most importantly, Gallagher hasn't had any real disaster starts. His shortest outing after his first start has been 4 2/3 innings, and he's never allowed more than five runs in a game.

Jorge Posada is back behind the plate, clearing room for Jason Giambi at DH and Wilson Betemit, who appears to be Richie Sexson's platoon parter, at first base. The A's, meanwhile, have made a few roster moves that have made my series preview out of date. Bobby Crosby was activated before yesterday's game. He returns to shortstop with Donnie Murphy riding pine and Gregorio Petit getting optioned to Sacramento. Today, first baseman Daric Barton was place on the DL with a strained neck and Wes Bankston was recalled to play first. Finally, it is lefty Lenny DiNardo who will wind up taking Joe Blanton's spot in the rotation, making fellow southpaw Dallas Braden, who gave up Alex Rodriguez's home run yesterday, the replacement for Chad Gaudin in the bullpen.

Comments (326)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-07-19 10:06:18
1.   monkeypants
I like the idea of a Betemit-Sexson platoon. If Girardi would use both Gardner and Christian and both Moeller and Molina, this could end up being a clever bench. Not much thump from those four, but there IS the potential to PR early in the game, or even to platoon Christian and Gardner (I know, I know, Gardner's splits, yadayada...I'm just musing) until Damon gets back. Then, one more legitimate PH could make for a pretty decent bench, but would the team either DFA Moeller or be willing to with only 11 pitchers?
2008-07-19 10:09:57
2.   monkeypants
OK, I tried to post this before, but something weird happened. So...

I like the idea of a Betemit-Sexson platoon. If Girardi would use both Gardner and Christian and both Moeller and Molina, this could end up being a clever bench. Not much thump from those four, but there IS the potential to PR early in the game, or even to platoon Christian and Gardner (I know, I know, Gardner's splits, yadayada...I'm just musing) until Damon gets back. Then, one more legitimate PH could make for a pretty decent bench, but would the team either DFA Moeller or be willing to with only 11 pitchers?

2008-07-19 10:10:38
3.   monkeypants
1 2 ?????

Sorry about that.

2008-07-19 10:10:43
4.   SF Yanks
Other than the first two pitches, Joba has missed pretty badly.
2008-07-19 10:16:17
5.   Just fair
Hows about a nice quality win and a solid 8 or 9 from Joba. Let's get this good time train rollin'. : )
2008-07-19 10:19:55
6.   SF Yanks
Bobby takes the first strike every time. I can't figure out why the pitcher won't just lay the first one in there.
2008-07-19 10:20:53
7.   Mattpat11
I met Mickey Rivers and Oscar Gamble today
2008-07-19 10:22:42
8.   SF Yanks
ARod sure gets a lot of swing and misses on fastballs over the plate.

Make that curveballs too.

2008-07-19 10:27:11
9.   Chyll Will
Anyone watching YES hear Coney say the manager "Lou Pinella" twice? Did I miss something?
2008-07-19 10:27:55
10.   monkeypants
Interesting--Singleton just said that the Yanks have the 4th most 2-out runs in MLB, 2nd most in the AL this season. I had the impression that they scored very few runs with 2 outs, especially since they have had such troubles bating with RISP. Impression over reality, I guess.
2008-07-19 10:28:22
11.   rbj
I'm just so glad that Fox & MLB blackout Saturday afternoon games. Who would rather stay inside in a nice & air conditioned room to watch their favorite team when they could be outside in hot & humid weather with tons of mosquitoes.?
2008-07-19 10:28:44
12.   Mattpat11
9 Talking about how the A's are easier on young pitchers than someone iike Lou.
2008-07-19 10:29:13
13.   monkeypants
6 I used to feel the same about Mattingly, especially later in his career.
2008-07-19 10:38:41
14.   Just fair
2 seeing eye singles that barely elude the infielders' mitts make Joba work a bit harder. Man o' Man. Easy gas down the pipe fot the K. Sweet.
2008-07-19 10:41:44
15.   Chyll Will
12 Ah, thanks. So used to having to tune out Kay, so his absence has thrown off my hearing...
2008-07-19 10:42:37
16.   cult of basebaal
the RIPPER'S slashing!
2008-07-19 10:43:05
17.   Chyll Will
Wow, was that an accident? Pinwheels didn't send Cano home??
2008-07-19 10:43:06
18.   Just fair
Meachem's clueless.
2008-07-19 10:43:20
19.   monkeypants
So THAT time Meacham holds the runner. He obviously received orders...
2008-07-19 10:44:41
20.   RIYank
Hey, I thought the previous post was the game thread!

Wow, three consecutive hits. Is our URP-ophobia over?

2008-07-19 10:45:23
21.   monkeypants
20 You silly!
2008-07-19 10:46:42
22.   Just fair
Is it irrational to hate Youklis even more because he hit the ball that put Damon on the DL?
2008-07-19 10:46:54
23.   Chyll Will
20 So far the 'A" stands for "Antidote" ...
2008-07-19 10:47:00
24.   cult of basebaal
20 yeah, me too ... doh!
2008-07-19 10:47:19
25.   RIYank
Holy smokes.
Our weak sisters are hitting, and we're getting breaks, too!
2008-07-19 10:47:56
26.   Chyll Will
Wowzers, he's quick.
2008-07-19 10:48:07
27.   monkeypants
You can't stop Brett Gardner...you can only hope to contain him!

Shit, he is fast though. Can a player make a legitimate career exclusively on IF hits?

2008-07-19 10:48:09
28.   RIYank
I predict we'll see some walks now, Gallagher's rattled and the ump is calling a tight zone.
2008-07-19 10:48:30
29.   Just fair
I've never seen double that barely made into outfield grass.
2008-07-19 10:48:51
30.   RIYank
27 If some of them are doubles, yes!
2008-07-19 10:48:51
31.   kinbote
0 Great title. The guitar sample on that track is one of De La Soul's most perfect musical moments.
2008-07-19 10:49:29
32.   monkeypants
22 Yes.

But the, rooting for one professional team exclusively is probably irrational. Such is sports.

2008-07-19 10:50:28
33.   Chyll Will
31 I know, it's so wistful >;)
2008-07-19 10:50:40
34.   RIYank
Damn, that was ball four and 28 would have been vindicated.
2008-07-19 10:50:50
35.   cult of basebaal
man, gardner's the fastest yankee i've ever seen ... it's a pity he's got like zero percent of being a MLB starter unless he completely overhauls his swing and batting approach ...
2008-07-19 10:52:29
36.   Eirias
35 The problem is, one does not overhaul one's swing in the majors. *.A? Yes. MLB? No.
2008-07-19 10:53:12
37.   RIYank
Grrrrrr. 2nd and 3rd nobody out with Jeter and Abreu coming up, and this is what we get!

Well, A-Rod can pick them up...

2008-07-19 10:53:17
38.   monkeypants
Yikes. OK, time for that 2 out magic that Singleton was talking about.
2008-07-19 10:54:56
39.   SF Yanks
How can one of the greatest hitters in the game swing and miss so much? I'll never understand it.
2008-07-19 10:55:19
40.   cult of basebaal
36 well, if i were the yanks, when damon comes off the DL, i'd send gardner down to tampa and have the hitting equivalent of nardi contreras break down and rebuild his swing
2008-07-19 10:55:48
41.   Eirias
40 We have a hitting equivalent of Nardi Contreras?
2008-07-19 10:56:36
42.   Just fair
F@$#ing Horse%$&@. Yeah, 2-0 is far better than 4-0.
DAMN!
2008-07-19 10:57:30
43.   RIYank
Well, that wasn't fun at all.
2008-07-19 10:57:42
44.   monkeypants
39 Who knows. Babe Ruth swing and missed a lot too. One of my favorite quotes of all time, from Ruth: "I swing big, with everything I've got," Ruth said. "I hit big or I miss big. I like to live as big as I can."
2008-07-19 10:58:02
45.   cult of basebaal
jesus, this game has been the best of times and the blurst of times!
2008-07-19 10:58:30
46.   RIYank
Jeter and Abreu each struck out on pitches out of the strike zone. A-Rod's was definitely in the zone, though. Amazing.
2008-07-19 10:58:49
47.   Chyll Will
41 Yardi?
2008-07-19 11:01:49
48.   monkeypants
44 39 As a follow-up, Ruth was first or second in the league in Ks twelve times, and he was in the top 10 every season of his career. Of course in those days you could lead the league with only about 70 or 80 Ks.
2008-07-19 11:02:29
49.   SF Yanks
Wow, Joba has more strikeouts than base runners in his career. Is that normal?
2008-07-19 11:02:30
50.   cult of basebaal
you know? goose gossage is totally right! joba would be soooooo much better pitching out of the bullpen 4 times a week!
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-07-19 11:04:13
51.   RIYank
Anyway, Joba's still looking good.
2008-07-19 11:04:37
52.   Just fair
3 k's with runners on 2nd and 3rd and now that. boo.
2008-07-19 11:04:41
53.   williamnyy23
If Joba ever learns how to be more efficient, he will truly be a bonafide ace. The Joba belongs in the pen campaign seems so silly now.
2008-07-19 11:05:24
54.   RIYank
50 It's too bad Goose's talents were wasted as a relief pitcher, when he could have been an analyst.
2008-07-19 11:06:02
55.   Chyll Will
50 There's still time to pull a Smoltz move, or maybe he can do an Eckersley...
2008-07-19 11:06:15
56.   SF Yanks
48 I know typically homerun hitters strikeout more, but it just seems odd when it pertains to one of the greatest hitters; however, that Babe quote puts things into perspective a tad.
2008-07-19 11:08:28
57.   RIYank
Oh yeah. And 'ball three' was definitely in the strike zone, too.
2008-07-19 11:10:26
58.   Chyll Will
57 The swing after that is the best way to tell the umpire he was wrong...
2008-07-19 11:11:43
59.   OldYanksFan
Joba has no walks and 52 pitches. Not bad, but needs to be better.
2008-07-19 11:12:39
60.   Chyll Will
Coney said what i was thinking. Is his pitch that hard to pick up out the glove? Apparently; had no idea what Giambi was looking for...
2008-07-19 11:14:27
61.   SF Yanks
59 Wait...what?
2008-07-19 11:15:13
62.   cult of basebaal
53 what's so great about the gossage quote ... is that he said it wednesday ... he STILL thinks joba would be more valuable in the pen ...
2008-07-19 11:15:16
63.   SF Yanks
I fully welcome Second Half Robbie.
2008-07-19 11:15:54
64.   Chyll Will
That was a good hit, Robby. He's flipped the switch...
2008-07-19 11:16:01
65.   cult of basebaal
THE RIPPER!!!
2008-07-19 11:19:15
66.   Chyll Will
Second Half Melky still needs some work...
2008-07-19 11:19:19
67.   williamnyy23
62 Maybe that makes Goose feel more valuable himself? In that case, Joba should be stop pitching altogether and start blogging during the games!
2008-07-19 11:19:20
68.   cult of basebaal
FUCKING HACKY.
2008-07-19 11:27:57
69.   3rd gen yankee fan
God I love having good pitchers.
2008-07-19 11:28:30
70.   SF Yanks
1-5 hitters: 0 for 9

6-9 hitters: 6 for 7

2008-07-19 11:28:39
71.   cult of basebaal
he'd better steal ... and early in the count ... before cap'n has a chance to work his "magic".
2008-07-19 11:30:36
72.   Just fair
Why the hell do they not give Garderne a chance to steal for cripes sakes. Oh, and Joba has twice as many strikes and is averaging 16 pitches per inninging. That's preety good.
Wow, another thing I have never seen.
2008-07-19 11:32:06
73.   cult of basebaal
NICE recovery by gardner ... smart play to force the obstruction
2008-07-19 11:32:15
74.   cult of basebaal
now steal 3rd.
2008-07-19 11:33:10
75.   cult of basebaal
DOUBLE. STEAL.
2008-07-19 11:33:43
76.   Eirias
What happened with Gardner?
2008-07-19 11:36:18
77.   cult of basebaal
76 got picked off, drew the 1st baseman towards second, anticipated the throw from the 1st baseman to the SS (at 2nd), then broke back into the 1st baseman, who didn't get out of the way in time and was charged with obstruction, allowing gardner to go to 2nd.
2008-07-19 11:36:49
78.   cult of basebaal
another wasted inning.
2008-07-19 11:42:38
79.   williamnyy23
78 This game is a perfect illustration of this team's shortcomings. They simply can't play two good
games in a row.
2008-07-19 11:51:38
80.   Eirias
Good job, A-Rod. Now never take a pop-up from Jeter again.
2008-07-19 11:52:02
81.   Just fair
I deem this game to be an ass-biter. As in if the boys don't put a few more runs on the board, well, you know....
2008-07-19 11:56:39
82.   williamnyy23
Back to the hack attack...90+ games in and this team still has such a poor approach.
2008-07-19 11:56:41
83.   Just fair
Melky, get an effin' clue, wouldya!!
2008-07-19 11:57:20
84.   cult of basebaal
68. cult of basebaal
FUCKING HACKY.
2008-07-19 12:02:25
85.   Chyll Will
Okay, need to either sit Melky for a while or stick him somewhere where his sucky bat won't creep into the minds of the other kiddies around him. Gardner should've been protecting the plate with two strikes, but was trying to walk with two men on.
2008-07-19 12:04:33
86.   Just fair
Joba the cat. He must fancy himself an athelete or something. : )
2008-07-19 12:04:52
87.   cult of basebaal
85 well, i'm not blaming melky for gardner's at bat ... that's brett's fault and he's been consistently taking that approach ... it's almost as irritating as melky's.
2008-07-19 12:06:12
88.   Eirias
What is this guy doing in the rotation?
2008-07-19 12:06:58
89.   Chyll Will
87 I'm being facetious, but both of them are like automatic outs, back-to-back right now.
2008-07-19 12:10:56
90.   OldYanksFan
IP- H R ER BB K HR PC-ST ERA
6.0 6 1 1- -1- 8 0- 96-62 2.52
Not bad for a kid!
2008-07-19 12:14:30
91.   cult of basebaal
90 see, but he could have done that in 6 games of relief, which means you could have won 6 games, instead of only this 1. it's obvious where he's more valuable ...
2008-07-19 12:14:47
92.   Just fair
Embree's wearing some white-ass spikes. That's gotta be against a rule or something.
2008-07-19 12:15:05
93.   nemecizer
86 That is actually the name of my cat: "Joba the cat".
2008-07-19 12:19:51
94.   Just fair
93 Can it pitch? My dog's name is Mickey
2008-07-19 12:21:27
95.   Eirias
Take Advantage! T-A-K-E A-D-V-A-N-T-A-G-E!
2008-07-19 12:22:56
96.   williamnyy23
This is such a pathetic team.
2008-07-19 12:23:05
97.   OldYanksFan
Coney is so self depricating. I love it.
2008-07-19 12:23:23
98.   nemecizer
94 He can't pitch, but he is really good at sitting around and ignoring me.
2008-07-19 12:24:02
99.   OldYanksFan
Oh William... you optimist you!
2008-07-19 12:24:16
100.   nemecizer
Joba could have gone one more inning here.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-07-19 12:26:25
101.   Chyll Will
So far, the team has left 2 men on base through the first six. It's like half the lineup is popping and the other half is suffering withdrawal...
2008-07-19 12:26:57
102.   cult of basebaal
96 those guys who stand on the mound and do the throwing thing beg to be excluded.
2008-07-19 12:27:06
103.   nick
100 yes, but in the unlikely event that this piss-poor ballclub makes the playoffs, young master Chamberlain will be starting game one...so let's not use him up in 90 degree weather.
2008-07-19 12:27:33
104.   Chyll Will
98 Sounds like he'd fit in right here >;)
2008-07-19 12:28:59
105.   nick
william, do you refuse to post when we're playing well on principle? (don't get me wrong here--I'd kinda respect that decision...)
2008-07-19 12:30:14
106.   williamnyy23
99 It's not optimism or pessimism...it's an assessment of what has already taken place. The A's have all but put up the white flag on the season and the Yankees can't put the hammer down. They may very well win this game 2-1, but the offense continues to show no reason why it will start scoring runs.
2008-07-19 12:32:28
107.   williamnyy23
105 I can't affect how the Yankees play...if they don't play well when I have a chance to participate in a game thread, I am not sure what I can do.
2008-07-19 12:33:08
108.   williamnyy23
102 I meant the offense...the pitching has been pretty solid.
2008-07-19 12:34:48
109.   OldYanksFan
No William, it is constant critism on every game, every inning, ever pitch, every AB. This is a game of failure with occasional success mixed in.

This team is underperforming. But it is still in the hunt, and that's all that counts.

2008-07-19 12:36:08
110.   Shaun P
C'mon Veras, hold it!
2008-07-19 12:36:30
111.   cult of basebaal
108 it appears i spoke too soon
2008-07-19 12:37:18
112.   williamnyy23
109 Do me a favor...read through this post and count all the other critical comments and then get back to me. If you need some help, check out all the love for Melky.
2008-07-19 12:37:54
113.   Just fair
Yesterday's good feelings. POOF!. Up in smoke.
2008-07-19 12:38:09
114.   SF Yanks
Hmmmm...excellent.
2008-07-19 12:39:03
115.   Shaun P
Damn it!
2008-07-19 12:39:38
116.   Chyll Will
110 Shoulda told that to Jorge (sigh...)
2008-07-19 12:39:47
117.   Shaun P
Was that a true wild pitch (ie, Veras's fault), or was it Posada's fault? (Sorry, 'watching' via Gameday)
2008-07-19 12:40:01
118.   SF Yanks
Did the correction have to take place so fast?
2008-07-19 12:40:22
119.   OldYanksFan
112 You are correct. No doubt, you are contagious.
2008-07-19 12:41:04
120.   rbj
Checking in. So is this the rookie hazing for Joba: he pitches well but the offense doesn't support him and then the bullpen coughs it up for him?
2008-07-19 12:41:58
121.   williamnyy23
119 I am glad to know that I am that influential...I thought it was the team's poor play that inspires criticism, but if you want to give me the credit, I'll take it.
2008-07-19 12:42:48
122.   nick
phew.....now, if they come with the righty, Big Sexy to hit his first Yankee Stadium blast...
2008-07-19 12:44:05
123.   Shaun P
120 This reminds of me of Pedro pitching for the Red Sox in his prime - so many low scoring, 1 run loses vs the Yanks, or games where the bullpen would blow it and he'd get a no-decision (even if the Sox came back to win).

I always imagined it was frustrating to watch your ace get so little run support/bullpen sort. I never thought it was this frustrating.

2008-07-19 12:46:36
124.   Shaun P
70 Good thing the bottom of the order is coming up!
2008-07-19 12:54:17
125.   weeping for brunnhilde
Le plus ca change, Team, le plus ca change.

Good thing we had a few days to clear our heads and regroup, eh?

I'm just tuning in now, but I've been checking in on the radio.

Two baserunners stranded in every inning (save the last one)?

Christ Jesus in heaven.

What is there to say, really?

I guess next time Joba's gotta pitch a perfect game if he expects a W.

2008-07-19 12:58:09
126.   Just fair
Roll on Farsny. Can his success really be simplified to Girardi showing him the utmost trust? That would be something.
2008-07-19 12:59:44
127.   williamnyy23
126 Who knows...not bad for a contract year though. Could you imagine if he re-ups? He has been very good though, and at the very least, Girardi's confidence in him probably helped facilitate Joba's move to the pen.
2008-07-19 13:00:05
128.   thelarmis
11 pitch, low stress inning for farnsy. if we don't score in this frame, do we trust to send him out there for a 2nd? i'd say we have to...
2008-07-19 13:02:36
129.   Chyll Will
Wow, now that shoulda been a hit for Gardner. He just can't win...
2008-07-19 13:02:55
130.   cult of basebaal
damn, ellis is a hella defender at second.
2008-07-19 13:03:12
131.   monkeypants
With Gardner, we have to think of the infield as the whole field. So that grounder was the equivalent of a drive to the fence, with a nice leaping catch by the OFer.
2008-07-19 13:03:37
132.   cult of basebaal
126 girardi's the farnswhisperer ...
2008-07-19 13:04:49
133.   cult of basebaal
129 too bad for us ... with that leg kick, gardner could have walked to second.
2008-07-19 13:05:08
134.   monkeypants
Did he actually tag Jeter? I guess he didn't argue.
2008-07-19 13:05:43
135.   Chyll Will
131 He'd be the babe Ruth of softball, then >;)
2008-07-19 13:09:46
136.   williamnyy23
Once it went to 0-2, I was kind of hoping Abreu would be caught stealing so Arod could bat again next inning.
2008-07-19 13:10:56
137.   Just fair
132 Nice one. He seems like such a goon, but off the field he seems to have a good heart with his head in the right place. Or, I could be completely out of my mind.
2008-07-19 13:12:16
138.   Just fair
I have quite the uneasy feeling about this game. Ugh.
2008-07-19 13:12:24
139.   cult of basebaal
ruh roh, non-save situation mo ...
2008-07-19 13:14:14
140.   Just fair
Hm, a fast guy given a chance to steal before the batter flies to the outfield. What a good idea.
2008-07-19 13:14:51
141.   williamnyy23
It's painful to watch Posada throw...this could be the second game that having Posada behind the plate costs the team a game. I think the last time was with Mo pitching as well.
2008-07-19 13:16:23
142.   williamnyy23
Well, playing poorly for 8 innings put the Yankees in a position to lose this one in the 9th.
2008-07-19 13:16:31
143.   cult of basebaal
141 unfortunately, it's just as painful to watch jose molina bat ... kinda of a no win situation (especially with posada's spot due up 1st in the bottom of the 9th)
2008-07-19 13:16:34
144.   Chyll Will
139 aw crap...
2008-07-19 13:16:53
145.   monkeypants
Odd Sweeney didn't bunt once the PR got to 2B. But, then again, it worked out wee for him after all. Grrr..

So, did Sweeney succeed because he got a hit, or fail because he used the wrong approach and did not try to pull the ball to the right side?

2008-07-19 13:17:44
146.   williamnyy23
143 Molina's bat is awful, but when it's close and late, you simply can't leave Posada in the game. He doesn't even reach the base.
2008-07-19 13:18:17
147.   monkeypants
141 MAybe Po cost the game, or maybe it was Mo giving up base hits to the first two batters.
2008-07-19 13:18:20
148.   Just fair
141 Jeter, Abreu, and A-Rod cost us the game by all striking out with with men on 2nd and 3rd. Posada has nothing to do with this loss.
2008-07-19 13:18:21
149.   Zack
141 142 Posada's arm has not cost the team this game. The offense, yet again, has cost this team the game. And, unfortunately, Rivera's strange "non-save situation" pitching...
2008-07-19 13:19:05
150.   monkeypants
146 But if it's late and close, don't you need Po's bat more than ever?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-07-19 13:19:22
151.   thelarmis
well, looks like i was right - we shoulda put farns out there for a 2nd inning. whouda thunk it?!

of course, youk just homered and sux are up 2-0 early in anaheim...

2008-07-19 13:19:22
152.   Zack
146 I would actually argue the opposite. That its much better to have Posada's bat in a tie game than it is Molina's defense. You can't play to not lose, you have to play to win...
2008-07-19 13:19:38
153.   williamnyy23
149 You are right...about 10 different things cost them this game up until the 9th, but as it was still a tie game, his inability to throw did prove the decisive blow.
2008-07-19 13:20:53
154.   Zack
153 Or, Rivera giving up two straight hits proved the decisive blow. Posada not throwing a guy out didn't decide anything, Rivera's pitching, however, did. It happens...
2008-07-19 13:21:43
155.   monkeypants
153 I would argue that Mo giving up the long single to Sweeney was the decisive blow.
2008-07-19 13:21:50
156.   Just fair
Giambi, Posada, and Cano to save the day in the 10th. Or so I'm telling myself.
2008-07-19 13:21:59
157.   williamnyy23
150 Posada's bat is only in their 1 of 9 times, but his arm is behind their on every pitch. It's not like Posada is just throwing poorly; he doesn't even have a chance. Any runner with decent speed has been taking 2nd base at will. That's deadly in a tie game.

152 I disagree...sometimes you have to play to not lose before you can actually win.

2008-07-19 13:22:59
158.   Just fair
IF the Yankees do not win, it all blows.
2008-07-19 13:23:19
159.   williamnyy23
154 155 Games aren't played in vacuums. It seems to me as if the uncontested steal not only distracted Mo, but also changed the approach of the batter.
2008-07-19 13:24:44
160.   monkeypants
157 "Posada's bat is only in their 1 of 9 times, but his arm is behind their on every pitch."

I hope you realize that this comparison is ridiculous.

2008-07-19 13:24:47
161.   williamnyy23
154 155 Also, if you want to assume everything would have played out as it did, Sweeney's long single only sends the runner to third. Three Ks later, the run doesn't score.
2008-07-19 13:25:37
162.   Just fair
157 Playing "not to lose" is a death knell to any professional team or individual. IMO.
2008-07-19 13:26:00
163.   williamnyy23
160 Why is it ridiculous? In the 9th inning of a tie game, Posada will come up once in the next 2+ innings, but every runner that reaches over that span will have a great chance to steal a vital base.
2008-07-19 13:26:52
164.   williamnyy23
162 Difference of opinion...but not losing puts you in a better position to win than taking poor risks.
2008-07-19 13:27:09
165.   Zack
157 Playing to not lose is the same thing to me as playing in case you win. Whether in football thats taking the "safe" 3 points or running the prevent defense, or in baseball bringing in the no hit, defensive replacement or reserving your closer "in case" you take the lead. Either way, you are managing in ways that might help you maintain where you are, but decrease the odds of you bettering yourself enough to win. Its a lot harder to score runs with an already weak offense getting weaker, no matter the score.
2008-07-19 13:28:23
166.   williamnyy23
165 I'd love to have maintained that tie score and given the Yankees two guaranteed ABs. If not giving up runs is playing to lose, I am all for it.
2008-07-19 13:29:30
167.   Zack
159 161 Those two arguments cancel each other out. While I highly doubt Mo was distracted by a stolen base, if it did change both his and the batter's approach, you can be damn sure that runners on 1st and 3rd with no outs and a tie game would have change the batter's approach too...
2008-07-19 13:30:01
168.   monkeypants
159 OK, but you cherry picked one event at the end of the game as "decisive". But by that logic (or "approach," if you will) then clearly Mo allowing the second base hit was decisive.

Are you saying that Mo gets a free pass once the batter made it to 2B, because he was "distracted."? And how did the batter change his approach"? Presumably, with the runner on 2B and no outs, he should have tried to pull the ball. That he drove the ball the other way suggests that was his approach all along. And , even if he did change his approach, it is unclear to me how that takes Mo off the hook for giving up the base hit.

Finally, even if Molina was in the game, he stands only about a 50% of throwing the runner out. It's not as if Molina would have guaranteed no steal, so by extension, having Po in the game did not necessarily change the outcome of the inning.

If you want to isolate Po's throw as the decisive play, so be it. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny, IMO.

2008-07-19 13:30:18
169.   williamnyy23
167 Of course, that's why I stated "if you want to assume"...
2008-07-19 13:31:32
170.   Just fair
166 What were Mariano Duncan's famous words from 96?
"We play today, we play not to lose today, thas it."
: )
2008-07-19 13:31:51
171.   Zack
166 But they are pretty much independent of each other. You can't manage "in case" somebody gets on and tries to steal and then gets knocked home. That's jut like managing "in case" the team takes the lead so not bringing in your closer in a tie game. Instead, you can make the best pitching moves and put the best offense out there to score the runs and end the game immediately. Hard to manage for the next inning when you can win it now.
2008-07-19 13:32:06
172.   williamnyy23
168 I am saying that if Molina was behind the plate in that inning, I don't think the As score. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't think Mo being on the mound was more influential to the outcome than Posada being behind the plate.

Also, aside from Molina throwing out the runner is the deterent factor. Maybe instead of a steal, teh A's bunt?

2008-07-19 13:33:15
173.   Zack
That "1-40" when trailing after 8 inning stat certainly suggests the Yanks need all the late inning offense they can get...
2008-07-19 13:33:34
174.   williamnyy23
171 Then you go with Molina as soon as Davis came into the game. I don't care about the timing, but what I do know is Posada's inability to throw will be a serious liability late in games.
2008-07-19 13:33:51
175.   Just fair
You have got to be effin kidding me!!
2008-07-19 13:34:03
176.   williamnyy23
Incredible.
2008-07-19 13:34:09
177.   Chyll Will
Wow, game over...
2008-07-19 13:34:13
178.   Eirias
Rage.
2008-07-19 13:34:31
179.   Zack
Well, if that doesn't sum up the 2008 Yankees I don't know what does...
2008-07-19 13:34:33
180.   monkeypants
163 Because not "every pitch" is relevant to Posada's (in)ability to throw. If one can even compare Posada's ABs to the pitches he receives (why not compare the pitches he sees as a batter v. the pitchers he receives as a catcher?), you should only count those pitches for which there is a chance that the opponent can steal. That is a much smaller number. So, it is bogus to say that Posada only bats 4 times but he receives 130 pitches, and 130 > 4, so he shouldn't be in the game.
2008-07-19 13:35:38
181.   williamnyy23
OK...I am wrong...this team is so mediocre that you really can't pinpoint a cause. I guess why worry about Posada throwing when your pinch runner can't stand on his feet.
2008-07-19 13:35:40
182.   cult of basebaal
wow ... that sucked ... i feel bad for justin.
2008-07-19 13:36:06
183.   Chyll Will
Arrgh! That would have been the tying run.
2008-07-19 13:36:40
184.   cult of basebaal
RIPPER!!!
2008-07-19 13:36:43
185.   williamnyy23
180 I thought the point was pretty clear that I was talking about a specific situation of having a fast runner on base in a tie game. If it seemed as if I was being literal, I am sorry.
2008-07-19 13:37:02
186.   Eirias
BETEMIT!!!
2008-07-19 13:37:05
187.   Just fair
Word to big bird.
2008-07-19 13:37:22
189.   bartap74
Huh. Go figure.
2008-07-19 13:37:35
190.   Zack
Holy Crap! didn't expect that at all!
2008-07-19 13:37:36
191.   williamnyy23
Now that's a huge hit! Now if Melky can come through...
2008-07-19 13:37:42
192.   Chyll Will
Hmm. Okay, I admit it, I am wrong. Not hard to do.
2008-07-19 13:38:09
193.   cult of basebaal
YEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

BETAMAX!!!

2008-07-19 13:38:17
194.   OldYanksFan
Holy blown saves Batman!
2008-07-19 13:38:28
195.   thelarmis
YEEEEESSSSSS!!!! WAHOO!!!

c'mon Leche, base hit, buddy

2008-07-19 13:38:33
196.   Zack
So we go with Mo for another inning?
2008-07-19 13:38:36
197.   monkeypants
I don't know...sometimes it's nice to have some offense in the line-up during these late-close games.
2008-07-19 13:38:38
198.   Chyll Will
Hacky Sock!!
2008-07-19 13:39:07
199.   williamnyy23
196 No need if Gardner will just have confidence in his ability to bunt.
2008-07-19 13:39:22
200.   Zack
Man does that fall down hurt like mad.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-07-19 13:39:36
201.   Just fair
Justin "Sister" Christian may sleep better tonight. I only say that because there have been a bunch of Night Ranger references lately.
2 out squeeze attempt, anybody? : )
2008-07-19 13:39:41
202.   dianagramr
Alternate side of the Street hitting is in effect today.
2008-07-19 13:39:45
203.   thelarmis
this is fun!

c'mon kid, win it!

2008-07-19 13:40:09
204.   bartap74
Is it normal for a baserunner to head into the dugout during a mound conference? I don't think I've ever seen that before.
2008-07-19 13:40:12
205.   monkeypants
181 Fair enough!

Meanwhile, as we spar the game unfolds in a very interesting fashion!

DRAG BUNT!!

2008-07-19 13:40:16
206.   Zack
Would love a squeeze, but somehow I doubt that will happen.
2008-07-19 13:40:29
207.   williamnyy23
200 Everything would have been different! Maybe that fall opened the door?
2008-07-19 13:41:07
208.   monkeypants
So much for the bunt with Brett "0-2" Gardner.
2008-07-19 13:41:17
209.   3rd gen yankee fan
Holy pete!
2008-07-19 13:41:20
210.   dianagramr
207

Some people have fallen through open doors. :-)

2008-07-19 13:41:26
211.   thelarmis
201 ooh, i missed the Night Ranger references. that woulda been fun!

i guess you can say, we're "Chippin' Away" here in the 9th ; )

2008-07-19 13:42:29
212.   Just fair
At least he hit hard. : (
2008-07-19 13:42:33
213.   weeping for brunnhilde
How 'bout that Robby Cano, eh?
2008-07-19 13:42:42
214.   Zack
Sooooo, Mo for another?
2008-07-19 13:43:27
215.   williamnyy23
I really wish Gardner would have bunted. He is fast enough to think that it would have been his best chance to win the game.
2008-07-19 13:44:02
216.   williamnyy23
Make no mistake about it...not having Damon and Matsui is crushing.
2008-07-19 13:44:26
217.   Chyll Will
212 He got "good wood"?
2008-07-19 13:45:00
218.   OldYanksFan
Our 1 thru 4 is 0 for 13 (Jason w/3 BBs). Rare that the bottom of our lineup comes through. I guess it's sort of a good sign.
2008-07-19 13:45:31
219.   monkeypants
214 I would. After that, who? Robertson? Nope, it's Edwar.

Hey Molina is in, just for William. This makes sort of sense, since Posada won't come up again for another two innings (or if his spot does come up, then the team will probably have won it in the 10th).

2008-07-19 13:45:47
220.   Zack
Now Girardi puts in Molina? Sometimes I think he is just managing out of fear and reactions. While I don't agree with it, if you are going to throw in the defensive replacement, obviously last inning would have been the time...
2008-07-19 13:45:56
221.   williamnyy23
You really have to wonder how much longer the Yankees will use Posada behind the plate. I can imagine he must be steaming now.
2008-07-19 13:46:24
222.   monkeypants
I've lost track...has the Big Sexy been used yet?
2008-07-19 13:46:28
223.   Zack
219 Or, perhaps, I am blind to the logical part of the move, which you point out...
2008-07-19 13:47:10
224.   williamnyy23
220 Here's the problem...if it wasn't for ego, you'd keep Posada in until a runner reached base. Unfortunately, if Girardi did that, Posada would be pissed.
2008-07-19 13:47:19
225.   monkeypants
Grrrr...come on, Edwar!
2008-07-19 13:48:32
226.   monkeypants
224 Good point! And Posada MUST know that this is a defensive move. So why should he be MORE upset if it happens during the half inning or after Ellis gets HBP?
2008-07-19 13:48:57
227.   cult of basebaal
219 exactly. as i pointed out waaay back in 143 girardi got caught between jorge on D or molina at bat in the bottom of the 9th in a potentially critical spot. i think if they had cleared jorge's spot in the inning before, we'd have seen jose in ... oh well, gonna be interesting to watch how girardi handles this for the rest of the year ...
2008-07-19 13:49:25
228.   williamnyy23
226 It's the old don't show me up rule...like calling a hitter back as he walks toward the plate...that seems to trump playing to win the game.
2008-07-19 13:51:23
229.   cult of basebaal
222 that's DICKLOCK SEXY ... preferably said in a "Fat Bastard" voice
2008-07-19 13:52:33
230.   williamnyy23
Oh no Edwar! Ah...the bullpen has been so good you can't complain about it. It's just a shame that offense keeps putting the bullpen in such a tough spot.
2008-07-19 13:55:36
231.   Just fair
Carl "The Rajai of Rehab" Pavano Davis.
2008-07-19 13:57:58
232.   williamnyy23
Now that Cano is starting to hit, do you move him up or leave him at the bottom? Or, do you wait to see a little more?
2008-07-19 13:58:00
233.   thelarmis
time to win...

NOW!!!

thank you, please : )

2008-07-19 13:58:13
234.   monkeypants
OK boys, I have dinner plans at 5:00--let's win it here.
2008-07-19 13:58:53
235.   cult of basebaal
230 dude ... don't scare me like that! i'm watching on mlb.tv so i'm lagging behind live ... i kept waiting for edwar to give up a hit to the last batter.
2008-07-19 13:59:17
236.   rbj
Oh crap, we have to go through the top of the lineup now. It'll be a weak hacking 1 2 3 inning. Just hope the pitching holds until the Yankees get to the bottom of the lineup where the big boppers are.
2008-07-19 13:59:57
237.   Just fair
232 Let him be. And bench Melky for a couple games when Damon comes back to see if it light a fire in his butt as well.
2008-07-19 14:00:16
238.   monkeypants
232 I'd leave the lineup the way it is today for a little while. Anyway, Damon may be back soon, which will shift everyone down one spot and knock Gardner out of the lineup. In that case, Cano will hit 6 or 7 anyway.
2008-07-19 14:00:28
239.   Chyll Will
236 Maybe not... >;)
2008-07-19 14:00:30
240.   williamnyy23
235 Sorry about that...I was referring to the HBP and walk.
2008-07-19 14:00:54
241.   thelarmis
there's a start. let's atone for that horrible inning earlier from these 3...
2008-07-19 14:02:19
242.   williamnyy23
238 I'd love to see Damon, Jeter, Cano, Arod, Giambi...but you're right...let's see more for now.
2008-07-19 14:02:47
243.   Just fair
Why do bunts and stolen bases suck again?
2008-07-19 14:03:10
244.   Zack
Abreu stinks
2008-07-19 14:03:23
245.   williamnyy23
Arod has to go deep here, right? Everything seems to be aligned so perfectly.
2008-07-19 14:04:18
246.   OldYanksFan
Time to step up ARod!
2008-07-19 14:04:19
247.   monkeypants
243 I think bunts kinda suck must of the time, but SBs aren't so bad.
2008-07-19 14:04:30
248.   cult of basebaal
grrr. still just missing them.
2008-07-19 14:05:11
249.   monkeypants
247 ... most of the time...
2008-07-19 14:06:11
250.   williamnyy23
Wow...a 3-2 IBB...talk about respect. I don't know if that's a good move or not.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-07-19 14:06:29
251.   williamnyy23
Doube steal?
2008-07-19 14:06:42
252.   monkeypants
Here's the last real offensive weapon on the bench. After this, it's the Molina show, with Moeller as his stand in.
2008-07-19 14:06:47
253.   williamnyy23
251 I magine throwing to 3rd around Sexson?
2008-07-19 14:06:56
254.   cult of basebaal
DICKLOCK SEXY time!
2008-07-19 14:07:08
255.   Just fair
My random Rookie hazing idea for the day
Justin Christian as Gerald Ford.
2008-07-19 14:08:19
256.   monkeypants
Would it have been better to let Christian bat, and then PH Sexson for Molina? Is Molina a better hitter than Christian? Probably, actually.
2008-07-19 14:08:52
257.   OldYanksFan
TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM!
2008-07-19 14:08:53
258.   williamnyy23
Ouch...that was ball four I think.
2008-07-19 14:09:32
259.   monkeypants
219 And yet I was wrong.
2008-07-19 14:10:04
260.   OldYanksFan
Shitfuck! Ball 4.
2008-07-19 14:10:11
261.   cult of basebaal
dammit ...
2008-07-19 14:11:14
262.   williamnyy23
259 Unless Ellis steals 2B in the 10th and that changes that inning. I think the point is that having one catcher who can't throw and one that can't hit is a recipe for trouble.
2008-07-19 14:12:23
263.   cult of basebaal
256 silly man, there is this thing, usually made from cardboard ... it's got like 4 walls and a floor ... and when you manage, you have to stand in it.
2008-07-19 14:12:37
264.   williamnyy23
The Yankees just faced a fresh rookie in the 10th inning at YS and didn't score...this just doesn't feel like a Yankee team.
2008-07-19 14:15:00
265.   williamnyy23
Be - care - ful.
2008-07-19 14:15:40
266.   cult of basebaal
two sliders in a row from ramirez to start ellis off there ... for whoever was asking about a 3rd pitch for eddy yesterday.
2008-07-19 14:16:45
267.   Just fair
I wonder if the Red Sox game will be over before this one. It's amazing to see some of the bad swings Ramirez induces.
2008-07-19 14:17:16
268.   Just fair
266 That was me.
2008-07-19 14:17:44
269.   Travis08
Golden sombrero for Cust.
2008-07-19 14:17:51
270.   williamnyy23
Great job by Edwar....I still can't believe that the Yankees bullpen is excelling across the board, while this lineup sputters.
2008-07-19 14:18:22
271.   Zack
When Edwar can use the changeup as his strikeout pitch, he can look really dominant
2008-07-19 14:18:40
272.   cult of basebaal
i sure do like watching edwar pitch when he's on ... changeups are awesome!
2008-07-19 14:19:30
273.   cult of basebaal
269 cust's down to 2TO's today ...
2008-07-19 14:20:13
274.   rbj
Good news is we've got the heart of the order up now.
2008-07-19 14:20:36
275.   Just fair
Only Cano.
2008-07-19 14:21:07
276.   Travis08
Post All-Star break Cano: .600/.600/1.100
2008-07-19 14:22:53
277.   OldYanksFan
Somehow bunting in front of Melky and Gardner seems to make little sense, but I guess it's better then a DP.
2008-07-19 14:26:42
278.   OldYanksFan
If that's Abreu if RF, the game is over. Defense counts.
2008-07-19 14:26:57
279.   cult of basebaal
damn ... almost for melky.
2008-07-19 14:28:36
280.   Just fair
Gardner inspires little confidence. Hit the ball on the groud for fuck's sake.
2008-07-19 14:29:20
281.   williamnyy23
Gardner really isn't a major league hitter. I really hope Damon gets back soon.
2008-07-19 14:34:37
282.   OldYanksFan
He hit the ball so much better in the Spring. I wonder if he is afriad to try and hit the ball hard.
2008-07-19 14:35:32
283.   Just fair
280 I meant ground. If there was a groud, though, I doubt Brett could hit it there either.
2008-07-19 14:36:55
284.   williamnyy23
Damn it
2008-07-19 14:40:31
285.   cult of basebaal
282 i was just wondering something similar. although he's not got a lot of power, jennings has talked about him hitting a few real (i.e. one that doesn't just clear the fence or is down the lines) homeruns at SWB. with the swing and approach he's showing right now, i'd say that was impossible.
2008-07-19 14:40:36
286.   williamnyy23
Maybe let the relievers hit too?
2008-07-19 14:41:33
287.   williamnyy23
282 285 The missing variable may be major league pitching when it isn't working itself into shape.
2008-07-19 14:44:50
288.   SF Yanks
ARod is 0 for 5 with 3 strikeouts and 7 left on base. I think he's due for something
2008-07-19 14:46:20
289.   SF Yanks
He was SAFE!
2008-07-19 14:47:09
290.   Alex Belth
David Cone has created a new word..."Variates" as in "He variates his delivery."

Abreu got jobbed there.

2008-07-19 14:47:35
291.   williamnyy23
Look...this is Lenny Dinardo...someone has to drive this run in.
2008-07-19 14:47:51
292.   cult of basebaal
he was safe. thanks, blue.
2008-07-19 14:48:10
293.   OldYanksFan
Crap. Where is instant replay?
2008-07-19 14:48:45
294.   Alex Belth
Hey Richie, time to pop your cherry... (No DP here tough guy)

P.S Does Sexton look like a Giant Raph Finnes or what?

2008-07-19 14:49:50
295.   Alex Belth
Jose Can You See! Let's go Fat Papi...
2008-07-19 14:50:08
296.   Just fair
290 Ha. I looked at my wife when he said that and asked, "Variates isn't a word, is it?"
2008-07-19 14:50:19
297.   williamnyy23
Come one Jose...don't make me look bad!!
2008-07-19 14:51:08
298.   Alex Belth
Misery if the Yanks don't find a way to win this, right?
2008-07-19 14:51:09
299.   Just fair
Hey Stein, if he throws one inside, lean into it.
2008-07-19 14:51:18
300.   williamnyy23
Sexson has to get a huge lead.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-07-19 14:51:56
301.   Alex Belth
C'mon Fat Guy, hang tough.
2008-07-19 14:51:57
302.   williamnyy23
Damn it Molina, that was a hanger!!
2008-07-19 14:52:29
303.   Alex Belth
There you go!
2008-07-19 14:52:29
304.   williamnyy23
Fitting.
2008-07-19 14:52:41
305.   SF Yanks
Yes! Way to take one for the team bud!
2008-07-19 14:52:44
306.   Just fair
A perfect ending to a maddening game.
2008-07-19 14:52:56
307.   williamnyy23
299 Great advice.
2008-07-19 14:53:18
308.   Alex Belth
Not exactly Reggie, but he did boogie that back knee into that one, eh?
2008-07-19 14:53:30
309.   SF Yanks
Wow, he stuck his leg into the pitch!
2008-07-19 14:54:10
310.   cult of basebaal
302 relax. bengie's got ya covered!
2008-07-19 14:54:16
311.   Just fair
307 And I give it all for free. : )
2008-07-19 14:54:28
312.   OldYanksFan
Ouchy! On the knee!
2008-07-19 14:55:52
313.   Alex Belth
Hey, they don't need to be pretty, they just have to be "w"'s...
2008-07-19 14:56:02
314.   cult of basebaal
310 wow. brain lock ... this game went on so long, i started confusing my molinas!
2008-07-19 15:15:07
315.   Just fair
Coco Crisp just made one of the best catches I have seen this year. WOW.
2008-07-19 15:51:23
316.   OldYanksFan
Oh no. The Sox Sox lose anyway. Jeez....
2008-07-19 16:17:44
317.   RIYank
Reading through comments 150 - 200 in retrospect (that is, knowing what happened in the rest of the game) is very funny! I like reading the discussion of exactly what and who is responsible for the loss, when I know there is no loss to be responsible for.

Damn, if you want to know what month it is, just look at Cano's highlights. And so many of them...

Also, how delightful of Beckett to go deep into a real pitchers' duel and then cough up a homer and a bases-loaded triple in the seventh inning. Now if Doc Holliday can just keep it up for the rest of the evening...

2008-07-19 16:36:42
318.   JL25and3
317 I was at the game, and I don't have a problem with that discussion in spite of the win. Actually, I'm not sure "win" is even the right word. Let's say that the Yankees were unable to outsuck the A's today, but it sure wasn't for lack of trying.

However, I disagree with both sides of the argument. The loss-that-wasn't shouldn't have been pinned on Rivera's pitching or on the catching change. The culprit was (or would have been) men on second and third with none out, and Jeter, Abreu and Rodriguez all strike out.

2008-07-19 17:25:59
319.   RIYank
318 That was an astounding moment, it's true. Think how Oakland fans must have been feeling right then. "Hey, we might just have something in this kid..."
2008-07-19 17:48:25
320.   OldYanksFan
Doc Holliday was very fast, and never lost.
Doc Halliday however, choked big time and TB is waltzing to victory. Meanwhile, Garza was brilliant.
At the OK corral, LA and Arizona are fighting it out. They are tied for the lead in the NL West, both 2 games UNDER .500.
2008-07-19 18:07:49
321.   rbj
Seven No Decisions in nine starts for Joba. Does he do something to tick of the rest of team?
2008-07-19 18:16:34
322.   rbj
Er, tick off .
2008-07-19 18:53:37
323.   OldYanksFan
Joba's got plenty of years to rack up wins. I do like the 2.52 ERA
2008-07-20 05:43:26
324.   OldYanksFan
In talk about getting an impact OF bat, I have not heard the name Matt Holliday mentioned much. His numbers are inflated by Coors, and his Home/Away differential is alarming, but his adjusted numbers are still good.

He is 28, career OPS+ of 131. From 2006-2008, his OPS+ is 144. For comparison, Matsui has an OPS+ of 126. Even considering 'Life at Coors', it would seem his bat is AT LEAST as good as Matsui's (peobably better), and his glove, arm and legs have to be better.

His 2009 Contract Year salary is $13.5m.
He is not a no-brainer, but certainly worth consideration, especially considering our future (and present) OF situation is not good.

Thoughts?

2008-07-20 06:08:32
325.   Sliced Bread
Yanks Talkin' Trades With Pirates, according to NJ Star Ledger:

"Hideki Matsui's uncertain status for the rest of the year has caused the Yankees to increase their interest in Pittsburgh outfielders Jason Bay and Xavier Nady.

A major-league official familiar with the Pirates organization, who asked not to be named because trade talks are ongoing, said the Yankees also have interest in lefty relievers Damaso Marte and John Grabow.

"It's going to take a little bit of time," the official said of the whether anything happens. "I think with recent events, (the Yankees) would like to add a bat."

Pittsburgh is asking more for Bay than Nady; minor-league outfielders Austin Jackson and Jose Tabata and pitchers such as Ian Kennedy are names that could be discussed.

Melky Cabrera does not interest the Pirates, who have Nate McLouth in center field. Bay or Nady could split left field/DH for the Yankees with Johnny Damon.

How Richie Sexson fares in the next few days could also affect the Yankees' plans.

The Pirates see Marte as a set-up and and not a lefty specialist and thus are asking for a fair amount in return.

In fact, the official said, Pittsburgh isn't dead-set on parting with any of the four players. The Pirates would like to acquire prospects to help rebuild, but they could also keep the big-leaguers and make a run at finishing .500 for the first time since 1992."

2008-07-20 06:24:48
326.   RIYank
Holliday: great player. But do you think the Rockies are looking to trade him? Maybe the smarter move is to wait a year and try to woo him as a FA after the '09 season.

Bay or Nady:
X is having a career year, but frankly his career is not very impressive. Jason Bay is a different story, he's a very good corner OF. I dunno if I'd trade A-Jax, because you're only getting one more year of Bay after this one, but I think I would trade Kennedy for him.
I don't like the idea of trading for an NL reliever, though. I don't like the idea of trading for any reliever, but definitely not for an NL guy.

2008-07-20 07:24:44
327.   OldYanksFan
Nady ($3.35m, contract year), at 29 in his 7th year, has a career OPS+ of 107 and OBP of .335. These are OKish numbers but certainly nothing special.

Bay (29) is signed through 2009 (at $7.5m in 2009) with a career OPS+ of 131 (same as Matt Holliday)and OBP of .376.

$7.5m is 15% of Pittsburg's payroll. They would turn down 3 or 4 kids who get paid the minimum and hold Bay for ONE extra year to MAYBE finish .500? Is that how you try to build a low market team for the future?

I don't know what Pittsburg's farm looks like, where they have their strengths. But I think if they trade Bay, they could probably use an OFer to replace him. Unfortunately, Brett has played too poorly to attract much attention. One would think a small market team would be interested in cheap pitchers with an upside.

See as trading Bay is somewhat a salarly dump, I would think it can be done. Since we can only upgrade at 1st and OF, I think we need more then Nady. Again.... Bay for

Melky/Gardner
IPK/Horne/Sanchez
2 others from anyone on the farm except....

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